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What's with all the horrible ideas to lower gas prices

Old 05-22-07, 04:07 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
instead we take the only alternative to fossil energy that makes sense (Nuclear) and pretty much make it impossible to build any new Nuclear power plants
Nukes are making a comeback. I'm not sure if there are any laws banning the building of nuke plants. Perhaps your back yard is available though?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:08 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Nukes are making a comeback. I'm not sure if there are any laws banning the building of nuke plants. Perhaps your back yard is available though?
Mine is.

And it is not the laws, it is the environmentalists.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:11 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Mine is.

And it is not the laws, it is the environmentalists.
Those pesky environmentalists!

Its more like "normal people."
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Old 05-22-07, 04:12 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
OPEC is not the problem.

They aren't the entire problem. There is price fixing. But even if you fix all the other parts of the problem, drilling for more oil would be a great part of the solution. Tar sands and oil shales are another. There is no shortage of oil, and won't be for more than a few centuries.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:14 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
They aren't the entire problem. There is price fixing. But even if you fix all the other parts of the problem, drilling for more oil would be a great part of the solution. Tar sands and oil shales are another. There is no shortage of oil, and won't be for more than a few centuries.
There is enough oil in the latter that drilling in ANWR is unnecessary. Except to oil companies who can make a quick but temporary buck off of it.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:15 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Those pesky environmentalists!
It's a money grab. I've watched them whenever someone tries to put up a new power plant. I've watched them try to get dams removed. I've watched them fight solar panel projects and wind power. It's about throwing up enough flags to get a payoff. And it is done by environmentalists.

Who is it that you believe try to stop these things?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:18 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
There is enough oil in the latter that drilling in ANWR is unnecessary. Except to oil companies who can make a quick but temporary buck off of it.

Heavy speculation given that they won't even allow a test well to get a good idea of what is there.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:24 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
It's a money grab. I've watched them whenever someone tries to put up a new power plant. I've watched them try to get dams removed. I've watched them fight solar panel projects and wind power. It's about throwing up enough flags to get a payoff. And it is done by environmentalists.

Who is it that you believe try to stop these things?
And how, exactly do these groups get paid off?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:31 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
And how, exactly do these groups get paid off?
We have the 2nd largest landfill in America about 30 miles from me. Takes in trash from all over. It's an amazing facility. The environmental engineer is a friend of mine.

Anyway, the environmentalists put up all kinds of road blocks. Court orders, appeals, etc. The name of the game is to delay the process as long as you can. Eventually the company figures out a price that it is worth it for them to get rid of you rather than continue to pay all the court costs, delays, etc. One group (really just a guy named Dennis White) managed to get a tipping fee paid to his group if he agreed to quit fighting them because the delays were getting costly. The Yakama Indian Nation is pretty good at this too, because they don't have to pay for their own lawyers. They generally make a payoff deal in the begining though.

It's the same reason you hear environmentalists cry for wind power then oppose it when it becomes a reality. It's a money grab.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:34 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Nukes are making a comeback. I'm not sure if there are any laws banning the building of nuke plants. Perhaps your back yard is available though?

Sure, you can put it next to the two that are already here

http://www.nucleartourist.com/us/va.htm


Environmentalists are a major influence in the energy problems, have no illusions.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:37 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by 4KRG

Ethanol?
Wind?
Solar?
BioDiesel?
Hydrogen?

What's else?

or are you saying that a whole new energy source that no one has thought of yet needs to be invented?
CRM114 - I am waiting for your answer to this one.

What energy source is going to save us?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:41 PM
  #62  
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yeah, I know, that is the point.

Screaming you want fossil energy replaced in full is just as rediculous.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:41 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
And how, exactly do these groups get paid off?
BTW, I actually rent to one of the biggest environmentalists around here. He is a retired government worker. He uses the money to go back protests against the WTO, etc. He worked under the banner of the Audubon Society as a local chapter. The nationals finally caught wind of what was going on and revoked their charter.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:55 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
There is only one solution to the oil problem - science. The social benefits from launching a massive research and development program to replace oil would be gigantic. In fact, it probably constitutes the single most important investment society could undertake today.
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
That we don't is not the fault of the politicians, but the public's lack of foresight and enthusiasm for science.
Dammit, you were so close. Why do you think that the public is lacking foresight, or an enthusiasm for science? I don't see that. What I see is a generations of politicians on both sides of the aisle so beholden to the oil companies that they scuttle advanced research and design that could lead to oil independence. What they've promoted instead is cheap, unfettered access to more oil, with lip service paid to advancing technology like hydrogen cars and wind farming.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
BTW, I actually rent to one of the biggest environmentalists around here. He is a retired government worker. He uses the money to go back protests against the WTO, etc. He worked under the banner of the Audubon Society as a local chapter. The nationals finally caught wind of what was going on and revoked their charter.
Ok, so you're talking about scam artists that have figured out how to game the system, not environmentalists per se.

You seem to have a large number of deadbeats in your area. I wonder why?
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Old 05-22-07, 05:10 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
Ok, so you're talking about scam artists that have figured out how to game the system, not environmentalists per se.

You seem to have a large number of deadbeats in your area. I wonder why?

Nope, they are true believers who figure that they can oppose everything, make money that they can use for the good of society and Mother Earth...and themselves. You kid yourself if you think that the bulk of environmentalists aren't the same. It is the same reason Ted Kennedy calls for wind energy and then complains when they put it in his sailing lane.

These aren't scam artists, they are environmentalists. How often do you think things are built (like energy plants, landfills, wind farms, etc.) that don't involve payoffs?

My area is no different than others and you are naive if you think money is not a part of the game.

Why do you think environmentalists call for renewable energy and then block efforts to use windmills?
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Old 05-22-07, 05:10 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
CRM114 - I am waiting for your answer to this one.

What energy source is going to save us?
I didn't know this was directed at me.

I've been advocating using alternative sources of oil while exploring new means of power. What the best source might be I'll leave to the scientists.

What I do know is that scientists, either in the private or public sector, are not going to make serious progress until the American government gets serious about making progress.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:32 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Dammit, you were so close. Why do you think that the public is lacking foresight, or an enthusiasm for science? I don't see that. What I see is a generations of politicians on both sides of the aisle so beholden to the oil companies that they scuttle advanced research and design that could lead to oil independence. What they've promoted instead is cheap, unfettered access to more oil, with lip service paid to advancing technology like hydrogen cars and wind farming.
Except for that one line you quoted, I agree with Vandelay 100% in this thread. It feels... strange.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Nope, they are true believers who figure that they can oppose everything, make money that they can use for the good of society and Mother Earth...and themselves. You kid yourself if you think that the bulk of environmentalists aren't the same.
The ones I know aren't like that.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:38 PM
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By and large, the ones that go to court are.

Again, why do you think windfarms get blocked by environmentalists?

Better yet, what energy producing plan does not get blocked by environmentalists?

Last edited by kvrdave; 05-22-07 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:50 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
By and large, the ones that go to court are.

Again, why do you think windfarms get blocked by environmentalists?

Better yet, what energy producing plan does not get blocked by environmentalists?
I'm more aware of windfarms being blocked by the people who live there and are worried about property values.

As to your 2nd question, environmentalists want research into cleaner alternatives, not more of the same crap that's out there now.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:56 PM
  #72  
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That's what they say until you try to do it, then they come up with a reason it is bad as well. Environmentalists want the stone age. I can't think of any energy alternative they have not tried to block. The wind farms around here are in the middle of 10,000 acre farms and it wasn't the farmers who tried to block them.
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Old 05-22-07, 05:58 PM
  #73  
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And statistically, there is nothing (NOTHING!) cleaner and safer than nuclear energy. Who do you think will be at the front of the line to block it?
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Old 05-22-07, 06:44 PM
  #74  
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We should just not buy gas on the 15th of <i>every</i> month then. Or at least some people. Some people can decide not to buy on the 14th and some on the 16th. Then there are <b>three</B> days in a row where someone is not buying gas. I don't just talk, i will act first. This week I will not fill up on wednesday through friday. Take that, oil mongers!!!
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Old 05-22-07, 06:48 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
I'm more aware of windfarms being blocked by the people who live there and are worried about property values.
Then here's some reading for you.

http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2...smus-windfarm/
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2007/...common-ground/
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