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What's with all the horrible ideas to lower gas prices

Old 05-22-07, 02:05 PM
  #26  
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People are building refineries in other countries. Reliance has one of the most modern and largest refineries in the world where my uncle lives in India.
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Old 05-22-07, 02:08 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
The electric industry is deregulating, if it works so well, why is it changing?

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/electricity.htm
You are familiar with Enron?
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Old 05-22-07, 02:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bhk
People are building refineries in other countries. Reliance has one of the most modern and largest refineries in the world where my uncle lives in India.
Good. Let them build all the refineries in India then. Quit the bellyaching. Its already been pointed out that refinery capacity is a red herring.
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Old 05-22-07, 02:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
There is only one solution to the oil problem - science. The social benefits from launching a massive research and development program to replace oil would be gigantic. In fact, it probably constitutes the single most important investment society could undertake today. That we don't is not the fault of the politicians, but the public's lack of foresight and enthusiasm for science.
Total agreement.
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Old 05-22-07, 02:28 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
You are familiar with Enron?
I was telling Numanoid that reglation was not the answer, what is your point?
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Old 05-22-07, 02:37 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
I was telling Numanoid that reglation was not the answer, what is your point?
Enron is a case in point on why deregulating electricity is not the answer either.

"What we need to do is to help in the cause of, ah, downfall of California," an employee is heard saying on the tapes. "You guys need to pull your megawatts out of California on a daily basis."

"They're on the ropes today," says another employee. "I exported like a fucking 400 megs."

"Wow,'' says another employee, "fuck 'em, right!"
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Old 05-22-07, 02:50 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
There is only one solution to the oil problem - science. The social benefits from launching a massive research and development program to replace oil would be gigantic. In fact, it probably constitutes the single most important investment society could undertake today. That we don't is not the fault of the politicians, but the public's lack of foresight and enthusiasm for science.
I agree. But, that's a long-term solution.

There are some short-term remedies.
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Old 05-22-07, 02:55 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by classicman2
I agree. But, that's a long-term solution.

There are some short-term remedies.
We can get most of our oil from the western hemisphere if we wanted it seems.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:09 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
There is only one solution to the oil problem - science. The social benefits from launching a massive research and development program to replace oil would be gigantic. In fact, it probably constitutes the single most important investment society could undertake today. That we don't is not the fault of the politicians, but the public's lack of foresight and enthusiasm for science.
However, after the cost is paid, we would clammer for gas at $3.50 a gallon. Just because we can dream that there is a cheaper alternative does not mean that there is.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:13 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
However, after the cost is paid, we would clammer for gas at $3.50 a gallon. Just because we can dream that there is a cheaper alternative does not mean that there is.
You're too hung up on fuel being "cheaper." I'm interested in freeing ourselves from the middle east supply AND discovering fuels without polluting byproducts.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:13 PM
  #36  
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The only 'saving grace' this time around is that diesel (which for many years was higher than gasoline - only God & the major oil companies and refiners know why) is now considerably cheaper than gasoline.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:18 PM
  #37  
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IMO - Clean burn diesel will be the next thing

http://www.martinandalex.com/blog/ar...announces.html

this makes far more sense for an immediate solution that other alternative evergy cars (Ethanol, Hydrogen, fully Electric)
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Old 05-22-07, 03:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
You're too hung up on fuel being "cheaper." I'm interested in freeing ourselves from the middle east supply AND discovering fuels without polluting byproducts.
I would guess that thought is shared by less than 10% of gas consumers, though. They want cheaper alternatives, not more expensive.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:45 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Of course. That there is no alternative right now means one will never be found. Especially when you consider the little effort, resources and leadership we have invested. Maybe if we halved that...?
Point taken. Perhaps the answer is as simple as curing AIDS.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:52 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I would guess that thought is shared by less than 10% of gas consumers, though. They want cheaper alternatives, not more expensive.
probably less than 5% - you were being generous
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Old 05-22-07, 03:52 PM
  #41  
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I always am to CRM114
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Old 05-22-07, 03:55 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I would guess that thought is shared by less than 10% of gas consumers, though. They want cheaper alternatives, not more expensive.
And here I thought Americans wanted to end our reliance on middle eastern oil. I guess I should never underestimate American's need to buy more crap from Walmart.

Last edited by CRM114; 05-22-07 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 05-22-07, 03:58 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Point taken. Perhaps the answer is as simple as curing AIDS.
You're poking fun, but you picked the wrong analogy.

Massive research into AIDS therapy has turned AIDS from a death sentence into a chronic, manageable disease for thousands of patients (think Magic Johnson).

If we could have gains in alternative energy like we've had in AIDS treatment, well, that would be quite an accomplishment.

Applying your solution to AIDS research would be to not waste any money on it since the problem is hopeless, right?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:02 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
And here I thought Americans wanted to end our reliance on middle eastern oil. I guess I should never underestimate American's need to buy more crap from Walmart.
They may say that, but they want cheap gas. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. They also believe it would be cheaper if we could drill off the coast where environmentalists won't let us, but the Chinese can, or in Alaska, etc.

If one good thing comes out of all this, it will be a terrible blow to the environmentalists.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:04 PM
  #45  
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Yeah, let's drill for more oil. That'll help.

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Old 05-22-07, 04:05 PM
  #46  
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instead we take the only alternative to fossil energy that makes sense (Nuclear) and pretty much make it impossible to build any new Nuclear power plants

hmmm what renewable energy source makes any sense that can meet the demand?

Ethanol?
Wind?
Solar?
BioDiesel?
Hydrogen?

What's else?

or are you saying that a whole new energy source that no one has thought of yet needs to be invented?
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Old 05-22-07, 04:05 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Or putting a man on the moon.


I do agree with you, btw. But I also think there are a lot of better alternatives right now....like drilling in ANWAR, etc.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:06 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
Yeah, let's drill for more oil. That'll help.


Yeah, more product around not controlled by OPEC couldn't do anything but make the problem worse.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:07 PM
  #49  
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Nuclear cars! I've got dibs on the first one off the assembly line!

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Old 05-22-07, 04:07 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Yeah, more product around not controlled by OPEC couldn't do anything but make the problem worse.
OPEC is not the problem.
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