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'Jews have too much sway in US policy'(EU survey)

Old 05-14-07, 04:46 PM
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'Jews have too much sway in US policy'(EU survey)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull


Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST May. 14, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Many Europeans believe the Jews dictate US policy in the Middle East, wield disproportionate global economic influence and talk too much about the Holocaust, according to a report released Monday by the Anti-Defamation League.

The report's findings found that significant numbers of people in five European countries continue to hold anti-Jewish stereotypes, said Abraham Foxman, national director of the US group.

"A large number of Europeans continue to be infected with anti-Jewish attitudes, holding on to classical anti-Jewish canards and conspiracy theories," Foxman said at a news conference where he presented the report.

The survey of 2,714 people in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland found that 51 percent of respondents believed that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the countries in which they live. In the Spanish sample, the figure was 60%. In France, only 39% agreed.

Foxman said the widely-held belief in dual allegiances was particularly troubling.

"Disloyalty is a classical canard of anti-Semitism," Foxman said. "Hitler did not begin with Aryan supremacy. Hitler began with charging the Jews of not being good Germans, of selling out Germany for their own interest."

The statement that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust" was seen as "probably true" by 58% of poll respondents in Poland, where many of the World War II Nazi death camps were located. The average for the five countries polled was 47% in agreement.


Poles were also most likely to subscribe to another long-standing belief, with 39% of respondents there saying they somewhat agree or strongly agree that the Jews "are responsible for the death of Christ." Overall agreement with that statement was 20%.

An average of 44% across the countries surveyed said Jews "probably" have too much influence on international financial markets, while close to half believe that "American Jews control US policy in the Middle East," the report said.

Thirty-nine percent of those surveyed said they believed that Jews had too much power in the business world.

In each country surveyed, anti-Jewish stereotypes were more widely believed by those over 65 and those without a college education, the report said, adding that negative attitudes toward Jews had worsened in some areas and remained unchanged in others, compared to a similar survey in 2005.

Foxman said the results showed a "significant relationship" exists between attitudes to Jews and events in the Middle East.


On the Israeli-Arab conflict, a majority of respondents believed Israel had no right to use military force against Lebanon last summer after Hizbullah fighters kidnapped two Israeli soldiers, the report said.

Overall, a majority of respondents considered Hamas a terrorist organization and supported withholding foreign aid to the coalition Palestinian government in which Hamas is a partner, until its leaders renounce violence against Israel and recognize its right to exist.

The survey was conducted by London-based Taylor Nelson Sofres from March 21 through April 16. The margin of error was 4 percentage points.
An interesting survey. Has something like this survey been done in the US recently?
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Old 05-14-07, 04:54 PM
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I wonder if they would think the middle easterners in their contriesare more loyal to their country than to Palestine?
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Old 05-14-07, 07:09 PM
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Forty years old and still right on target, IMO:

Martin Luther King on Zionism

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.

"Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so.

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested -- DEMANDED -- the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism.

"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

(From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76. Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.")
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Old 05-14-07, 07:50 PM
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Old 05-14-07, 08:20 PM
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I am shocked, shocked, that there is anti-semitism in Europe!
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Old 05-14-07, 08:42 PM
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The survey of 2,714 people in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland found that 51 percent of respondents believed that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the countries in which they live. In the Spanish sample, the figure was 60%. In France, only 39% agreed.

Foxman said the widely-held belief in dual allegiances was particularly troubling.

"Disloyalty is a classical canard of anti-Semitism," Foxman said. "Hitler did not begin with Aryan supremacy. Hitler began with charging the Jews of not being good Germans, of selling out Germany for their own interest."
If I believe that orthodox jews in Montreal are more loyal to Israel than Quebec/Canada that makes me anti-semitic? I mean jesus, talk about a giant leap of logic...

Here, let's turn this situation around. Wasn't there a poll that showed 8 out of 10 Muslims in the UK considered themeselves Muslim first and British citizens second? Should we conclude from that that 80% of Muslims in Brittain are anti-British? Were the jews in these countries polled to see where their "loyalty" lies?

Now let's examine the following statement:

Foxman said the widely-held belief in dual allegiances was particularly troubling.
The concept of "citizen" is deeply rooted in a country's policies of integration. For example France has a policy of strict integration (i.e. of "citizenship") where as the UK has multiculturalist policies. Therefore it's not surprising that the above poll shows France having the lowest figure at 39%. It's also not surprising that the Muslim poll showed that only 4 out of 10 Muslims considered themselves Muslim first in France (compared to the 8 out of 10 in the UK). However, countries practicing multiculturalism are also deemed more open and more accepting of immigrants and their culture AND of the fact that they maintain some level of loyalty to their religion and/or homeland. So in fact, that poll proves squat except that jewish lobbies and organizations are prone to knee-jerk accusations of anti-semitism...

Last edited by eXcentris; 05-14-07 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-14-07, 09:04 PM
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Old 05-14-07, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
If I believe that orthodox jews in Montreal are more loyal to Israel than Quebec/Canada that makes me anti-semitic? I mean jesus, talk about a giant leap of logic...
Hardly a fair comparison. Everyone in Canada prefers some other place.
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Old 05-20-07, 12:34 AM
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The statement that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust" was seen as "probably true" by 58% of poll respondents in Poland, where many of the World War II Nazi death camps were located. The average for the five countries polled was 47% in agreement.
Well, they probably have a point. Half of those killed by the Nazis in Poland weren't Jewish (over three million of them) but ordinary Catholic Poles, gypsies, handicapped etc. yet where are the thousands of books, movies, televisions shows, cultural references and ceremonies about them? Likewise, the Germans killed over 20 million Russians, while the Japanese slaughtered 23 million Chinese and 7 million Burmese, Malay, Thai, Vietnamese and Indonesians. There's very little mention of these numbers when people speak of World War 2 atrocities, which is often restricted only to Jewish deaths. If I were Polish I might think the same thing.

Foxman said the results showed a "significant relationship" exists between attitudes to Jews and events in the Middle East.
Amazing. Who'd have thunk it?

I think the piece is quite ironic, as it decries the 'anti-semitic' EU (but only by having an 'expert' from the Anti Defamation League, a clearly political organisation with strong motivation to view practically anything as anti-semitic, read into the responses anti-semitic intent), yet it is itself blatantly 'anti-EU' itself. In fact, it read much like a planted propaganda piece for the ADL.

"The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S. These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement." - Noam Chomsky

"The ADL lost most of it credibility in my eyes as a civil rights organization when it began to identify criticisms of Israel with anti-Semitism, still more when it failed to defend me when I was receiving threats to my life from right-wing Jewish groups because of my critique of Israeli policy toward Palestinians (it said that these were not threats that came from my being Jewish, so therefore they were not within their area of concern)." - Rabbi Michael Lerner
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Old 05-20-07, 10:40 AM
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Legitimate criticism of Israeli policies should never be suppressed, but anyone who thinks that the charges of anti-semitism in Europe are knee-jerk reactions to all criticism of Israel is simply not paying attention to the current and historical cultural realities of the continent, IMO.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan29.html

In Europe, an Unhealthy Fixation on Israel

By Robin Shepherd
Sunday, January 30, 2005; Page B03

BRATISLAVA, Slovakia

It may not have been apparent on the surface, but Europe's recent commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was steeped in irony. Even while the Old World stirringly recalls the horrors of Hitler's death camps and vows never to forget the Nazi genocide of the Jews, it also embraces an increasingly -- and alarmingly -- antagonistic attitude toward the Jewish state that arose from the ashes of World War II.

As the Middle East conflict burns on, more and more Europeans are turning against Israel. A growing number subscribe to the belief that the impasse between the Israelis and the Palestinians is the wellspring of much of the world's ills today, and that the blame for all this lies squarely with Israel -- and by extension, with its staunchest ally, the United States. As President Bush seeks to find common ground with Europe in his second term, he might do well to acquaint himself more thoroughly with this reality. For as surely as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict divides Jews and Arabs, it also divides Europeans and Americans. If you're looking for root causes of the growing transatlantic split that go beyond the easy cliches about U.S. unilateralism, it's time to sit up and take notice.



Many Europeans view Israel as a greater threat to the world's security than North Korea, which leads the list of scary nations for most Americans. (Ahn Young-joon -- AP)



Go to a dinner party in Paris, London or any other European capital and watch how things develop. The topic of conversation may be Iraq, it may be George Bush, it may be Islam, terrorism or weapons of mass destruction. However it starts out, you can be sure of where it will inevitably, and often irrationally, end -- with a dissection of the Middle East situation and a condemnation of Israeli actions in the occupied territories. I can't count how many times I've seen it. European sympathy for the Palestinians runs high, while hostility toward Israel is often palpable.

And the anger is reaching new -- and disturbing -- levels: A poll of 3,000 people published last month by Germany's University of Bielefeld showed more than 50 percent of respondents equating Israel's policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi treatment of the Jews. Sixty-eight percent of those surveyed specifically believed that Israel is waging a "war of extermination" against the Palestinian people.

Germany is not alone in these shocking sentiments. They have been expressed elsewhere, and often by prominent figures. In 2002, the Portuguese Nobel Prize-winning writer Jose Saramago declared, "What is happening in Palestine is a crime which we can put on the same plane as what happened at Auschwitz." In Israel just last month, Mairead Corrigan Maguire, the Irish winner of the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize, compared the country's suspected nuclear weapons to Auschwitz, calling them "gas chambers perfected."

Moreover, in a Eurobarometer poll by the European Union in November 2003, a majority of Europeans named Israel as the greatest threat to world peace. Overall, 59 percent of Europeans put Israel in the top spot, ahead of such countries as Iran and North Korea. In the Netherlands, that figure rose to 74 percent.


Perceptions of Israel in the United States, meanwhile, contrast sharply. A poll by the Marttila Communications Group taken in December 2003 for the Anti-Defamation League had Americans putting Israel in 10th place on a list of countries threatening world peace, just ahead of the United States itself.

What accounts for this transatlantic values gap?

Part of the explanation is that, despite all the Holocaust commemorations, the memory of that event really does appear to be fading in Europe. Increasing numbers of younger Europeans have no real sense of what the Nazis did. In Britain, Prince Harry isn't the only one who's oblivious to the realities of Nazi tyranny. A BBC poll of 4,000 people taken late last year, in the run-up to Holocaust Remembrance Day last Thursday, showed that, amazingly, 45 percent of all Britons and 60 percent of those under 35 years of age had never heard of Auschwitz -- the Nazi death camp in southern Poland where about 1.5 million Jews were murdered during World War II. Such ignorance compounds anti-Israeli feelings; for those who have no understanding of the Holocaust, Israel exists and acts in a historical vacuum.

This faltering awareness of the most vivid example of racist mass murder in the 20th century is accompanied by enduring anti-Semitism. A poll in Italy last year, for example, by the Eurispes research institute showed 34 percent of respondents agreeing strongly or to some extent with the view that "Jews secretly control financial and economic power as well as the media." The Eurobarometer survey quoted above also showed 40 percent of respondents across Europe believing that Jews had a "particular relationship to money," with more than a third expressing concern that Jews were "playing the victim because of the Holocaust."

Yet while the persistence of anti-Semitism is undeniable, it's not likely to be the chief explanation for European hostility to Israel. After all, surveys show that some anti-Semitic attitudes persist in the United States as well, but they don't translate into visceral animosity toward the Jewish state. Instead, the intense antagonism toward Israel appears to be a subset of the wider European hostility, emanating mainly from the left, toward the United States. It's unlikely to be a coincidence that the 2003 Eurobarometer survey put the United States just behind Israel as the greatest danger to world peace, on a par with Iran and North Korea.

Many European intellectuals see Israel, perhaps rightly, as one of the central pillars of U.S. hegemony in the modern world. European leftists implacably opposed to America are implacably opposed to Israel as well, and for exactly the same reasons. Over dinner in Berlin not long ago, a Frenchwoman told me emphatically that Israel was "America's policeman in the Middle East." Her companion, nodding in furious agreement, insisted that the two countries are partners in a "new imperialism," leading the world inexorably into war.

In the contorted universe of the chattering classes, Israel is at once America's servant and the tail that wags the dog -- doing America's bidding while forcing it into madcap adventures such as Iraq. As Peter Preston, the former editor of Britain's Guardian newspaper, put it in an op-ed last October, bemoaning both U.S. political parties' alleged servility toward Israel: "Republican policy is an empty vessel drifting off Tel Aviv, and the Democratic alternative has just as little stored in its hold."

The left-leaning antipathy toward Israel is moreover buttressed by deeper and wider pathologies in Europe's collective memory, particularly in our overriding sense of guilt about the past, a guilt that springs from the great 20th-century traumas of war and imperialism. The first has made Europeans, especially continentals, overwhelmingly pacifistic: In the German Marshall Fund's 2004 Transatlantic Trends survey, only 31 percent of Germans and 33 percent of the French could bring themselves to agree with the ostensibly tame proposition that "Under some conditions, war is necessary to obtain justice." Such attitudes do not mesh well with television pictures of Israeli helicopter gunships firing missiles at militant targets in the crowded Gaza Strip, whatever the justification for Israel's actions.

Europe is also awash in post-imperial guilt, and I frequently get the sense that Israel's claim to a piece of land in the Middle East revives guilt-inducing memories, among my English countrymen and others, of white Europeans carving up the Third World and subjugating "lesser peoples" in the 19th century. While the disturbing view that there's an equivalence between Nazi Germany and modern Israel is a relatively new development, another view equating Israel with apartheid South Africa and referring to Palestinians herded into "Bantustans" has been around for decades.

Mixed with the supercharged ideological hostility of the European left, the demons of the continent's past can make for an intoxicating cocktail of anti-Israeli sentiment There is undoubtedly room for criticism of Israel and its policies in the Middle East, but reasoned criticism appears to be giving way to emotional and irrational antipathy that is coloring the wider debate. And as that sentiment grows, American support for the Jewish state will continue to scratch raw nerves in the Old World.

There is much, of course, that the United States should be doing to improve its relationship with Europe. But repairing transatlantic relations is a two-way process. Americans should now be aware that on one crucial issue, at least, it is Europe, and not America, that needs to clean up its act.

Author's e-mail:

[email protected]

Robin Shepherd is an adjunct fellow of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He is based in central Europe.
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Old 05-20-07, 11:06 AM
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I am scared by the anti-semitism in Europe.
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Old 05-20-07, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Hardly a fair comparison. Everyone in Canada prefers some other place.
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Old 05-20-07, 04:05 PM
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Many Europeans believe the Jews dictate US policy in the Middle East, wield disproportionate global economic influence...

Maybe if Europeans would insert themselves more into US Foreign Policy, there wouldn't be this perception problem. From a US perception, Europeans don't want to have a say in US policy and would rather criticize it.
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Old 05-20-07, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Many Europeans believe the Jews dictate US policy in the Middle East, wield disproportionate global economic influence...

Maybe if Europeans would insert themselves more into US Foreign Policy, there wouldn't be this perception problem. From a US perception, Europeans don't want to have a say in US policy and would rather criticize it.
What? How are Europeans supposed to "insert themselves" into another country's foreign policy, aside from diplomacy?
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Old 05-20-07, 04:18 PM
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I don't know. It seems to me that whenever that giant shark takes the floor in the senate, he's roundly ignored.
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Old 05-20-07, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
What? How are Europeans supposed to "insert themselves" into another country's foreign policy, aside from diplomacy?
Well, they insert themselves with criticism so why not insert some other form of advice, other than telling us what we're doing wrong all the time.

I'm still surprised at the Jewish Conspiracy thing, especially as it's 2007. And then people wonder why the US is protective of Israel. We're pretty much the only country who would come to their defense.

Unfortunately, I think another mass murder of Jews could happen right under Europeans' noses because of the passivity if it were not for US involvement.
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Old 05-20-07, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Well, they insert themselves with criticism so why not insert some other form of advice, other than telling us what we're doing wrong all the time.

I'm still surprised at the Jewish Conspiracy thing, especially as it's 2007. And then people wonder why the US is protective of Israel. We're pretty much the only country who would come to their defense.

Unfortunately, I think another mass murder of Jews could happen right under Europeans' noses because of the passivity if it were not for US involvement.
So do you miss those trips Bush takes to Europe, his close relationship with Blair, and the fact that we have ambassadors to all the countries of Europe, or what?

I think you're mistaking Europeans for European governments.
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Old 05-20-07, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
"Mixed with the supercharged ideological hostility of the European left, the demons of the continent's past can make for an intoxicating cocktail of anti-Israeli sentiment There is undoubtedly room for criticism of Israel and its policies in the Middle East, but reasoned criticism appears to be giving way to emotional and irrational antipathy that is coloring the wider debate."

When reasoned criticism is met with knee-jerk reactions of anti-semitism, what do you expect?

- There is no doubt that there is anti-semitism in Europe.
- There is no doubt that jews use their history of oppression as a shield to deflect criticism against Israel

Herein lies the problem. Much like crying wolf when there is no wolf, or shouting fire when there's no fire, when there's a real wolf or a real fire, nobody will care or they will react with antipathy.

Organizations like the jewish ADL often hurt their cause more than anything.

"Disloyalty is a classical canard of anti-Semitism," Foxman said. "Hitler did not begin with Aryan supremacy. Hitler began with charging the Jews of not being good Germans, of selling out Germany for their own interest."

The statement that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust" was seen as "probably true" by 58% of poll respondents in Poland, where many of the World War II Nazi death camps were located. The average for the five countries polled was 47% in agreement.
How can you disagree with the poll numbers in the 2nd paragraph when the first reaction of the guy in the paragraph above is to bring up Hitler and the Germans...

Last edited by eXcentris; 05-20-07 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 05-20-07, 05:41 PM
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There is no racism in the European Union. It is a decadent, American phenomenon. Everyone knows that.
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Old 05-20-07, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris

How can you disagree with the poll numbers in the 2nd paragraph when the first reaction of the guy in the paragraph above is to bring up Hitler and the Germans...
I'm not really following your logic. You say that there is undoubtedly anti-semitism today in Europe. But when Jews actually point that out, and draw comparisons to historical European anti-semitism (vis-a-vis Hitler), then you think it's completely understandable for Poles to say "Jews still talk too much about the Holocaust"?

There's a reality that's got to be accepted here. Europeans were complicit in the physical extermination of an entire race of people, and it was only 60 years ago. That's a fact that mandates a logical acknowledgement that perhaps this centuries old tradition of race hatred didn't magically disappear from Europe in 1945. The vast, vast majority of Europeans involved in the Holocaust were never brought to justice, and with the partial exception of Germany, many of these countries have been quite reluctant to really examine their role in the events. Thus, despite the hubris of the Europeans to now think of themselves as supreme arbiters of liberal fairness and rationality---any objective observer would necessarily have to conclude that that image certainly does not jibe with their recent history. And because of that objective understanding of historical fact, if I were a Jew, I'd be less than inclined to give Europe today the benefit of the doubt in regards to their willingness to see Israel and the Jews be treated fairly and prosper.
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Old 05-20-07, 06:17 PM
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What is going to have more effect on the worldview of a 40-something Pole: memories of how communist dictators treated him, or how Nazi dictators treated his grandfather?

A traveling exhibit from the Holocaust Museum is in Albuquerque right now. I expect to go. I have a T-shirt from when the Anne Frank exhibit came here. But I've never seen a traveling exhibit about the Cultural Revolution, Prague Spring, the Khmer Rouge, or the Ukrainian famine. Or Rwanda, Turkish Armenia, Eritria, ...

Of course Americans are fixated on the Holocaust.
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Old 05-20-07, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
And because of that objective understanding of historical fact, if I were a Jew, I'd be less than inclined to give Europe today the benefit of the doubt in regards to their willingness to see Israel and the Jews be treated fairly and prosper.
This is the logical trap I'm seeing many in this thread fall into. They are blasting one monolithic group as a whole for being prejudiced against another group as a whole. i.e. Europeans are anti-semites.

I hate to break it to you, but if you think in terms of where people live you're no better than people who think in terms of what religion people follow.

Perhaps anti-semitism exists at a higher rate among European populations than american populations. Who knows? I haven't seen any reliable polls on that, so why bother speculating, if not to forward some anti-European agenda? (and that word "anti-European" should sound every bit as dirty as "anti-semite")

Here is my advice. Attack actions, positions, and arguments rather than the people behind them. If you're not doing that you should take a long look in the mirror.
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Old 05-20-07, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
I'm not really following your logic. You say that there is undoubtedly anti-semitism today in Europe. But when Jews actually point that out, and draw comparisons to historical European anti-semitism (vis-a-vis Hitler), then you think it's completely understandable for Poles to say "Jews still talk too much about the Holocaust"?
You have one poll immediately followed with a knee jerk accusation of anti-semitism including references to Hitler and Germans, and then a second poll which shows almost half the people in countries polled believing that the jews talk too much about the Holocaust. Well duh, color me surprised. I'm not sure what flaw you see in my logic.

If my answer to every problem on the planet was "it's the ninjas fault", I shoudn't be surprised that people polled about my answers believe that I bring up ninjas to much.
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Old 05-20-07, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
You have one poll immediately followed with a knee jerk accusation of anti-semitism including references to Hitler and Germans, and then a second poll which shows almost half the people in countries polled believing that the jews talk too much about the Holocaust. Well duh, color me surprised. I'm not sure what flaw you see in my logic.

If my answer to every problem on the planet was "it's the ninjas fault", I shoudn't be surprised that people polled about my answers believe that I bring up ninjas to much.
But what if it was the ninjas fault? People might get tired of hearing you bring it up, but it wouldn't make it any less true...
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Old 05-20-07, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
If my answer to every problem on the planet was "it's the ninjas fault", I shoudn't be surprised that people polled about my answers believe that I bring up ninjas to much.
If ninjas had been responsible for the mass genocide of millions of people just a couple of generations ago, then bringing up ninjas would seem to me to be quite reasonable.
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