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Bush wants to increase (some) taxes

Old 05-14-07, 11:05 AM
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Bush wants to increase (some) taxes

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a_weVSOX_Ito

Buffett Battles Bush as Corporate-Jet Owners Fight Tax Increase

By John Hughes and Jonathan D. Salant

May 14 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. airlines, which already share the sky with corporate jets, are pushing to share their tax burden too.

President George W. Bush is proposing to cut the amount passenger carriers such as American Airlines and Continental Airlines pay in federal taxes each year by $1.68 billion. Most of that obligation would be shifted to small-jet operators, including General Motors Corp., Exxon Mobil Corp. and NetJets Inc., the business-jet charter company owned by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc.

The Bush plan has touched off a fierce battle in Congress that cuts across partisan lines, with the carriers' trade association being outspent by an opposition that includes groups in rural communities that rely on smaller air-service companies.

Lawmakers say they are being inundated with calls and letters. ``I don't walk, breathe or move without being assaulted by very strong opinions on the subject,'' says Representative John Mica of Florida, the top Republican on the House Transportation Committee.

Under current law, the government collects $2,015 in taxes every time a full Boeing Co. 757-200 jet flies between New York and Florida, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. A General Dynamics Corp. Gulfstream 4 business jet flying a similar route -- and requiring the same amount of attention from air-traffic controllers -- pays $236, agency figures show.

Sharing the Burden

Under Bush's plan, the operators of the Boeing jet would pay $1,298, and owners of the Gulfstream would pay $837.




Without knowing all the details, it sounds like a good idea. The articles says 2/3 of air traffic is private jets. If that's true, they should pay more of the cost.

It looks like this is going to be more a rural community vs. big city divide than a party divide, although I'm not sure why Rockefeller is on the side of the airlines. Interesting conflict though.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:09 AM
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need to email schumer and tell him to cut the costs of the big airlines
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Old 05-14-07, 11:30 AM
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It would seem logical that you pay based on the amount of service required rather than the amount of people you carry.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:32 AM
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It seems to me that they should pay based on their booked flight revenue.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:41 AM
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That seems "okay" to me, but doesn't that basically mean that we are subsidizing the smaller commercial jets if they require the same amount of attention?

It would be interesting to see which politicians are where on the issue. This seems more like a "soak the rich" type thing the Dems would enjoy, but it is also something that you can't get around with a trust, etc. so there may be plenty of Dems who would have to pay it. They can't like that.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
That seems "okay" to me, but doesn't that basically mean that we are subsidizing the smaller commercial jets if they require the same amount of attention?

It would be interesting to see which politicians are where on the issue. This seems more like a "soak the rich" type thing the Dems would enjoy, but it is also something that you can't get around with a trust, etc. so there may be plenty of Dems who would have to pay it. They can't like that.
Those little Lear jets probably have a per-flight revenue nearly equivalent to a big jet anyway.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:52 AM
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That could be. It would be interesting to see those numbers.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
That could be. It would be interesting to see those numbers.
Probably not now that I think about. Even a modest sized airliner carrying 200 people at a price of $200 per seat is $40K. The question is whether $200 is a fair average to use. Not sure if the $49 Southwest type flights are more common than the $500 flights.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:14 PM
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I think the cost should be for services rendered (by the FAA) vs. how much money the plane charges its customers. Why should that affect it? If that is the case, many corporate jets could use loopholes to charge their "customers" nominal fees and pay less in taxes.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:17 PM
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The thread title is a little misleading. He wants to raise taxes on some and decrease taxes on others. Basically the kind of air travel Joe Blow uses is getting a tax break and the kind of air travel that Richie Rich uses is getting taxed more. to Bush on this one.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:19 PM
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It seems to me it's not so much a "tax" which is usually based on value, it's a "fee" based on services rendered.

I suppose it's that the word "tax" just seems to apply when it's the government taking it. But when you pay to go into a national park it's called a "fee". Maybe because you pay it at the time you use it instead of being assessed it for cumulative use all at once?
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Old 05-14-07, 12:31 PM
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Or a "tax" would be levied on non-users too, while a "fee" is just levied on those who use the facility.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:32 PM
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Buffet wants to "fight global warming." He should be happy to pay more in taxes for his jets.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:37 PM
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Sounds reasonable to me. The fee should be based on the cost of the services rendered.
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Old 05-14-07, 12:39 PM
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Well, that, or fly commercial.

You know he doesn't really mean HE should reduce HIS carbon footprint; he means everybody ELSE (like any other hypocrite)
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Old 05-14-07, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
Buffet wants to "fight global warming." He should be happy to pay more in taxes for his jets.
Also, Buffet has come out for the death tax(or against eliminating it). I'm sure that his army of lawyers will find a way around it.
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Old 05-14-07, 01:04 PM
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I think the article title is misleading. Here is a quote from the article

To make up the difference, he would increase fuel taxes on corporate and turbojet operators, as well as charters, air taxis and ``fractional'' jet owners, including customers of Woodbridge, New Jersey-based NetJets. Calls to NetJets weren't returned. Buffett, 76, didn't respond to a request for comment made through an assistant at his headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska.
Sounds like Buffett isn't necessarily against it.
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Old 05-14-07, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
Also, Buffet has come out for the death tax(or against eliminating it). I'm sure that his army of lawyers will find a way around it.
I think Buffet is on record saying that he will leave each of his children a healthy inheritance, pay the Estate tax and leave the rest to charity. Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Old 05-14-07, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
I think Buffet is on record saying that he will leave each of his children a healthy inheritance, pay the Estate tax and leave the rest to charity. Sounds like a good plan to me.
It's a good plan if your networth is in the billions. But, I suspect that his money is in trusts so that they don't pay too much.
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Old 05-14-07, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
Under current law, the government collects $2,015 in taxes every time a full Boeing Co. 757-200 jet flies between New York and Florida, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. A General Dynamics Corp. Gulfstream 4 business jet flying a similar route -- and requiring the same amount of attention from air-traffic controllers -- pays $236, agency figures show.

Under Bush's plan, the operators of the Boeing jet would pay $1,298, and owners of the Gulfstream would pay $837.

This is a step in the right direction, but it's still not enough. The two should pay the same.
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Old 05-15-07, 03:09 PM
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I've had it with this George W Bush and his pro-rich anti-poor people agenda. Damn Republicans!! This is an outrage.

I ask...how are the poor people going to afford their private jet flights now!?!?!? This is just an evil conspiracy to not allow poor black inner city kids access to the private jets they got used to flying around during those prosperous Clinton years.
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Old 05-20-07, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
I think Buffet is on record saying that he will leave each of his children a healthy inheritance, pay the Estate tax and leave the rest to charity. Sounds like a good plan to me.
link? IIRC he is leaving most (~99%) to The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
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