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DVD Talk review of 'The History Channel Presents Shootout! - Seasons 1 and 2'

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DVD Talk review of 'The History Channel Presents Shootout! - Seasons 1 and 2'

Old 05-07-07, 08:29 PM
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DVD Talk review of 'The History Channel Presents Shootout! - Seasons 1 and 2'

From Paul Mavis's DVD review of The History Channel Presents Shootout! - Seasons 1 and 2 at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=27908: "... With the history of the liberation of Iraq being rewritten almost daily by the mainstream media ..."

"Liberation"? Wasn't it the threat of WMD that got us in Iraq? And we have conveniently forgotten that the monster Saddam Hussein we sent our troop in to remove was our very own creation, haven't we?.

Talking about rewriting history ...
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Old 05-07-07, 09:33 PM
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who cares, what i learned in school about almost every war the US has been in isn't the real truth
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Old 05-07-07, 10:36 PM
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hell, my school textbooks didn't know the result of Vietnam.
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Old 05-07-07, 11:07 PM
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Regardless of the liberation/wmd debate, I think it was a lame comment, esp. "mainstream media," that added nothing to his review, which still seemed fine overall and informative enough.

I remember a while back when one reviewer complained about a particular tv show being 'un-American.' That, of course, is another example of personal opinion of politics that added nothing to the review.

I remember the complaints about the spike lee dvd on katrina too.

It takes some discipline for a writer to leave his politics out of his reviews. The same goes for journalists and news stories. But that isn't always easy or possible to do.
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Old 05-08-07, 12:23 AM
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Good points. Hopefully this won't be the norm.
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Old 05-08-07, 12:26 AM
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Well, no matter what you think, I think it's fair to say that Paul Mavis does not have a history of submitting controversial or questionable reviews here at DVDTalk.
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Old 05-08-07, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
Well, no matter what you think, I think it's fair to say that Paul Mavis does not have a history of submitting controversial or questionable reviews here at DVDTalk.
His choice of language is... interesting. "islamo-fascist" is one of those largely meaningless un-PC epithets-of-the-week invented by media pundits who make their livings trolling for controversy. If I were publishing something that my name would be tied to I wouldn't want that word in there. I wouldn't be as concerned about being seen as un-PC so much as being seen as lacking creativity. That word's week has passed. It's been squeezed for every last ounce of controversy it had and is now merely tasteless. It is now bland enough that Mavis probably didn't even notice it when he wrote it.

If I were a DVDTalk editor I might be concerned about getting flame-mail as a result of that sort of language. However, the odds of that are fairly small since, as discussed above, the word has already run it's course. Besides, what was being reviewed looks like pretty low-brow fare that won't have much appeal beyond card carrying NRA members. Any muslims who read past the title probably have thick enough skins not to care.
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Old 05-08-07, 01:41 AM
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Shouldnt this thread be in feedback?
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Old 05-08-07, 02:04 AM
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No, this doesn't belong in feedback. Stuff like this is normally discussed in the dvd reviews forum, but since it is highly political, it is in this forum.
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Old 05-08-07, 02:41 AM
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...the heroic U.S. servicemen who have a far different take on this conflict.

Yeah, I'm sure Tillman has an interesting take on war. Don't worry about the enemy. Worry about getting shot by your own. Friendly-fire is the most common during a war. But of course, we won't have a Shootout episode with US Troops accidentally killing each other, now will we. Nope. And we won't have re-enactments and CGI of US troops being ambushed. And we won't have amazing effects of a US soldier reaching for his weapon too late because he's already in the sights of a resistance sniper.

Not ALL US servicemen have a faithful view on the war in Iraq, and I would imagine we have varying opinions running through the various commands. Not all good. Not all bad. But good and bad.

I actually watched a few episodes on television (North Hollywood Shootout was one of them which was not bad, but still, absolutely nothing compared to a documentary which showed actual footage and eye-witness accounts). I have to admit, the CGI was eye-candy, but that's as far as I would recommend it. It got old after only a few episodes, and actually, after one episode come to think of it.
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Old 05-08-07, 07:14 AM
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What I find most fascinating about this thread is not so much what has been written (although I think everybody is making interesting points), but the fact that the only time I ever get feedback like this is when a review I write is perceived -- and that's the key word: perceived -- as somehow including a viewpoint that's right-of-center. As I've often stated in my reviews, every review is different, and that it's best to not try and guess my politics (or anyone elses, for that matter) based just on a single review. I would imagine most people's personal politics are a little more complex than that.

But here's the really interesting fact: when I write a review that has opinions that some might take as left-of-center, I don't receive a single email. Now that's fascinating. Is it because the vast majority of DVDTalk readers are left-leaning? I hardly think that's correct. Or is it because liberal or progressive readers -- contrary to the mainstream, accepted view of them -- are far less tolerant of differing views? I don't know. Or are they just scrappier when it comes to a ideological fight (I confess the Irish in me likes that notion)? Again, I really don't know.

That's what I think is fascinating about this thread -- and maybe a good starting point for another discussion.

And as I always say: I appreciate your feedback, and I'm glad I wrote something that stirred some kind of response in readers -- rather than putting them to sleep!

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Old 05-08-07, 07:24 AM
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Paul -- can you point us to one of your reviews that some might take as left-of-center?
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Old 05-08-07, 07:50 AM
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Sure, my review of P.O.V., where I state that I like to have my personal opinions and politics pushed and prodded. Where I like to have new experiences in what I watch, to challenge any old cobwebby feelings I might be stuck in. Right there -- that desire to experience new lines of thought -- flies in the face of most people's perception of what it means to be a "conservative" or "right-of-center," -- which I don't use, by the way, as a label for my politics.

No emails for that review. Nor for something like Maude, which I absolutely adore. Not exactly a bastion of conservative thought, there.
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Old 05-08-07, 08:44 AM
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I can't get to the Reviews section of the forum -- blocked by my company firewall -- but based on what you've told us, I think it's apples and oranges. You're not inserting your personal political beliefs in the examples you gave us. I don't see any die-hard right-wing poster really getting ticked off because you like to have your political views challenged.

Similarly, I don't think they're gonna write you an e-mail because you like Maude.



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Old 05-08-07, 09:12 AM
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Well, that goes back to my original point. If I think Maude's take on abortion is even-handed, you can bet there are a majority of die-hard conservatives who will NEVER accept that position, and who will view me with suspicion for stating that. As well, the general image in the media is that conservatives resolutely resist any kind of challenge to their beliefs, and that they're basically intolerant to other ideas. Again, that's the perceived image of conservatives as put out in the general media stories about them -- I don't believe that's the reality. As well, the opposite is put forth about liberals and progressives.

So when you say that no die-hard conservative is going to email me about Maude or P.O.V., that's what I find at odds with the general perceived notions about conservatives and liberals. And it goes back to what I originally put forth: why do only I only get emails when I put forth a review that has what some people take as pro-conservative thoughts?
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Old 05-08-07, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Mavis
Well, that goes back to my original point. If I think Maude's take on abortion is even-handed, you can bet there are a majority of die-hard conservatives who will NEVER accept that position, and who will view me with suspicion for stating that. As well, the general image in the media is that conservatives resolutely resist any kind of challenge to their beliefs, and that they're basically intolerant to other ideas. Again, that's the perceived image of conservatives as put out in the general media stories about them -- I don't believe that's the reality. As well, the opposite is put forth about liberals and progressives.

So when you say that no die-hard conservative is going to email me about Maude or P.O.V., that's what I find at odds with the general perceived notions about conservatives and liberals. And it goes back to what I originally put forth: why do only I only get emails when I put forth a review that has what some people take as pro-conservative thoughts?
You can't compare vague notions of ideology with right-wing buzzwords like "mainstream media" or "liberation of Iraq." The review would be perfectly fine without the buzzwords. Add to that the idea that the war is being "rewritten" by the media and not the administration. Even in the above post you hint at some left wing media bias.
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Old 05-08-07, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cine
From Paul Mavis's DVD review of The History Channel Presents Shootout! - Seasons 1 and 2 at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=27908: "... With the history of the liberation of Iraq being rewritten almost daily by the mainstream media ..."
The media bias arguments have even infected the DVD reviews! ARGH!
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Old 05-08-07, 11:23 AM
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I recently reviewed "Death of a President" and I can assure you that nowehere in my review can you find the words "although fictional, it was nice to see Bush finally get what he deserved".

Seriously, I tend to agree that one should leave his/her own politics out of reviews but when you deal with subject matter that is political, that's often hard to do. For example, if you perceive bias/inaccuracies/distorsions in the facts presented and/or opinions expressed (in documentaries), and you merely point those out, you might be accused of having a political bias yourself by those who support the positions presented. It can be a very fine line to walk on.

Funniest e-mail I ever got was from an Haitian woman who accused me of being a racist because I dared used the term "film noir".
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Old 05-08-07, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
I can't get to the Reviews section of the forum -- blocked by my company firewall -- but based on what you've told us, I think it's apples and oranges. You're not inserting your personal political beliefs in the examples you gave us. I don't see any die-hard right-wing poster really getting ticked off because you like to have your political views challenged.

Similarly, I don't think they're gonna write you an e-mail because you like Maude.



Then you have no idea how controversial Maude was at the time. Groundbreaking. The first mention of abortion on TV was Maude (in terms of a character facing it). Don't be a Maude hater....it was groundbreaking stuff.
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Old 05-08-07, 12:10 PM
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wouldn't that mean someone had to "do" her?
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Old 05-08-07, 12:11 PM
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Funniest e-mail I ever got was from an Haitian woman who accused me of being a racist because I dared used the term "film noir".
Are you sure it wasn't because you were niggardly in your praise of the movie?
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Old 05-08-07, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
wouldn't that mean someone had to "do" her?
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Old 05-08-07, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
Are you sure it wasn't because you were niggardly in your praise of the movie?
Who knows, maybe it was the "LanaTurner is one fine hoe" comment.

I was going to reply to her explaning that "film noir" is a genre and that there weren't even any black people in the movie, but then I imagined the kind of reply I would have got (why isn't it called "film white" then?, no black people? that's racist!), and decided to leave it alone.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
who cares, what i learned in school about almost every war the US has been in isn't the real truth
Who cares?

Perhaps we all would care if we didn't have a voluntary army doing the fighting.
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Old 05-08-07, 09:29 PM
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name one war the US fought for a higher purpose and not national interests
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