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Illinois Poised To Become A Smoke-Free State

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Illinois Poised To Become A Smoke-Free State

Old 05-04-07, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
I'm cool with the smoking ban for government cars.

But I'm surprised that casinos were on the ban list. Usually, casinos and nursing homes are immune from these smoking bans.

Yeah, it definitely makes sense to exempt nursing homes, because, you know, they are full of sick old people who would be better off dead.

(This has been a test of your sarcasm detectors.) Exposure to smoke causes large increases in cardiovascular problems and heart attacks. Not what the other, nonsmoking old folks need, even if the smokers are trying to kill themselves.

Since I don't believe in betting against the house odds, I don't care if you all go to the casino to poison yourselves, but I would sure like to get a drink without smelling like shit.
Old 05-04-07, 07:01 AM
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The legislation passed the House 73-42 Tuesday and now goes to Gov. Rod Blagojevich, who supports the ban "enthusiastically." If he signs the measure, the smoking restrictions would take effect Jan. 1 and make Illinois the 19th state the country to impose such a ban.
As CBS 2 Political Editor Mike Flannery reports, the margin of approval kills the possibility for a veto.
If the govenor is enthusiastic, why does the journalist belabor the point about veto-proof?
Old 05-04-07, 07:12 AM
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Put me on the short list of non-smokers who disagree with the method but appreciate the effect.

[Stream of consciousness] Smoking is an addiction... addiction is a disease... diseases should be quarantined and treated... maybe we should set up some sort of camps for the smokers... [/Stream of consciousness]
Old 05-04-07, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Boy, there are some whiny non-smokers. "Wah! It smells like smoke! Wah! It's gross! Wah! Wah! Wah!" Jesus, people. I've been in places that reek of alcohol, or of foods I don't like. When I go to Vegas, I know Mandalay Bay pipes in some kind of coconut scent that I find pretty vile. Whatever. I put up with it or I leave. I don't act like I'm being water-boarded merely because I'm exposed to something unpleasant.


After growing up in the 70's, I never thought I'd hear grown men crying about their clothes smelling like smoke.
Old 05-04-07, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Choice? I thought the reason the tobacco companies had to give billions upon billions to the states was that because it was and addiction and there was no choice. It's a disease....just like alcoholism, and every other thing you can't fire me for so long as I tell you I'm seeking medical treatment.
Uh no. The reason tobacco companies had to give billions to the states is because they sued them. And the smoking gun of the suit was the tobacco companies knowingly manipulating the levels of nicotine to ensure addiction.
Old 05-04-07, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Boy, there are some whiny non-smokers. "Wah! It smells like smoke! Wah! It's gross! Wah! Wah! Wah!" Jesus, people. I've been in places that reek of alcohol, or of foods I don't like. When I go to Vegas, I know Mandalay Bay pipes in some kind of coconut scent that I find pretty vile. Whatever. I put up with it or I leave. I don't act like I'm being water-boarded merely because I'm exposed to something unpleasant.
You want whiny? Have you ever heard the smokers crying about how their "rights" are being taking away from them? Rights! As if we have an inherent right to poison other people. Now THAT'S whiny. (And, frankly, pitiable.)
Old 05-04-07, 10:47 AM
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Actually, I rarely hear that. What I do hear is property owners crying about their rights being taken away. Certainly a legitimate reason for tears if you ask me. It is rather clear who the most selfish side of this issue is, and it isn't the smokers or business owners.
Old 05-04-07, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Uh no. The reason tobacco companies had to give billions to the states is because they sued them. And the smoking gun of the suit was the tobacco companies knowingly manipulating the levels of nicotine to ensure addiction.
And now you want to hurt the minority victims.

Old 05-04-07, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
It is rather clear who the most selfish side of this issue is, and it isn't the smokers or business owners.
You seriously believe that? Someone who believes that they should be allowed to pursue a completely personal interest like smoking, an interest which has the side effect of filling your nearby fellow patrons' lungs with a carcinogen(!), and thinks they should be allowed to do so freely, ISN'T being completely selfish?! That's amazing to me.
Old 05-04-07, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You want whiny? Have you ever heard the smokers crying about how their "rights" are being taking away from them? Rights! As if we have an inherent right to poison other people. Now THAT'S whiny. (And, frankly, pitiable.)
Yes, I suppose there are certain rights to use a perfectly legal product that people have been using for generations before you were born.
Old 05-04-07, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You seriously believe that? Someone who believes that they should be allowed to pursue a completely personal interest like smoking, an interest which has the side effect of filling your nearby fellow patrons' lungs with a carcinogen(!), and thinks they should be allowed to do so freely, ISN'T being completely selfish?! That's amazing to me.

You incorrectly view the debate as between smokers and non-smokers. You are totally ignoring the 3rd party that actually possesses the true right in question - the property/business owner's property right.

Smokers don't have a right to smoke on someone else's property. I've never argued that and no smoker I know of has either.

I don't think non-smokers who go running to government are selfish vis a vis smokers. I think they are selfish vis a vis property/business owners. They have no respect for property rights as they want government to infringe on that right to the non-smoker's benefit.

Last edited by Red Dog; 05-04-07 at 02:35 PM.
Old 05-04-07, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You seriously believe that? Someone who believes that they should be allowed to pursue a completely personal interest like smoking, an interest which has the side effect of filling your nearby fellow patrons' lungs with a carcinogen(!), and thinks they should be allowed to do so freely, ISN'T being completely selfish?! That's amazing to me.
One word. LEGAL. Take it up with your Congressman.
Old 05-04-07, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
One word. LEGAL. Take it up with your Congressman.
Don't have to. As of January 1st, it will be ILLEGAL.
Old 05-04-07, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Don't have to. As of January 1st, it will be ILLEGAL.
To smoke in a public building. Someone can invade your airspace walking down the street and OH NO your clothes might smell. Call the police.
Old 05-04-07, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You seriously believe that? Someone who believes that they should be allowed to pursue a completely personal interest like smoking, an interest which has the side effect of filling your nearby fellow patrons' lungs with a carcinogen(!), and thinks they should be allowed to do so freely, ISN'T being completely selfish?! That's amazing to me.
I favor the government taking a hardline stand against smoking as long as they limit it to their instiutions - public schools, public parks, public universities, court buildings, police stations, etc. Of course, the same would go for drinking alcohol too.

But banning smoking in casinos? Come on. I don't even gamble. I know states require some kind of state supervisor at these things, but they easily could find solutions to that - deregulation of gambling.
Old 05-04-07, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Don't have to. As of January 1st, it will be ILLEGAL.
It's going to be illegal to smoke tobacco products in Illinois as of January 1, 2008?
Old 05-04-07, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
I favor the government taking a hardline stand against smoking as long as they limit it to their instiutions - public schools, public parks, public universities, court buildings, police stations, etc. Of course, the same would go for drinking alcohol too.

Absolutely - I have zero problem with the government regulating smoking on government property. They own the property.

Just like I have zero problem with private businesses that do not allow smoking on their premises by their own choice.
Old 05-04-07, 03:21 PM
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I'm offended when I go into a bar or a club and there's music. I just want to sit down and have a drink, and I don't want my hearing being damaged by the loud music. Therefore, the government should ban music in bars. Listening to music is a completely selfish interest and I shouldn't have to damage my hearing for someone else to get pleasure out of the music?

(the above obviously isn't serious, but it makes just as much sense as the arguments to ban smoking)
Old 05-04-07, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You seriously believe that? Someone who believes that they should be allowed to pursue a completely personal interest like smoking, an interest which has the side effect of filling your nearby fellow patrons' lungs with a carcinogen(!), and thinks they should be allowed to do so freely, ISN'T being completely selfish?! That's amazing to me.
For the 83980438940023802380280th time, I ask...

Yes or no: Are you forced to patronize businesses that allow smoking?

I'll wait for the answer.
Old 05-04-07, 03:35 PM
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Where bans like this bother me is with regards to cigar bars and the like. An establishment that caters exclusively to smokers. Non-smokers have no reason to be in a place like that, but now they have to go smoke free..for what, so non-smokers can visit a cigar bar?


Going to light up a Cohiba is protest (In my backyard of course... )

Jay
Old 05-04-07, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wildcatlh
I'm offended when I go into a bar or a club and there's music. I just want to sit down and have a drink, and I don't want my hearing being damaged by the loud music. Therefore, the government should ban music in bars. Listening to music is a completely selfish interest and I shouldn't have to damage my hearing for someone else to get pleasure out of the music?

(the above obviously isn't serious, but it makes just as much sense as the arguments to ban smoking)
As soon as you demonstrate loud music causes hundreds of thousands of premature deaths each year, I think you'll have a case.
Old 05-04-07, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
As soon as you demonstrate loud music causes hundreds of thousands of premature deaths each year, I think you'll have a case.
Does it have to be real evidence, or can it be manufactured?
Old 05-04-07, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Dawg
Does it have to be real evidence, or can it be manufactured?

Old 05-04-07, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Dawg
Does it have to be real evidence, or can it be manufactured?
Very funny. Even tobacco companies admit smoking kills, but because they warned you, they should be exempt from legal damages.
Old 05-04-07, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Very funny. Even tobacco companies admit smoking kills, but because they warned you, they should be exempt from legal damages.
Make it illegal.

Is there evidence which shows short term exposure to second hand smoke KILLS?

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