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Should George W Bush be Impeached?

Old 04-30-07, 11:59 AM
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Should George W Bush be Impeached?

This topic came up in the Iraq thread. I'm curious what the results will be in this poll. Should GWB be impeached? Should the Congress start the impeachment process on him?

Make your case now for one and all to hear.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:03 PM
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Sure! It will keep Congress semi-occupied for a while so they can't mess up the country quite as much.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by X
Sure! It will keep Congress semi-occupied for a while so they can't mess up the country quite as much.
X, the voice of reason?

For the record, I voted no.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:05 PM
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What would be the point? It would just waste a lot of time/effort[1] and even if it was successful in the end by the time it was over it would be time for the next election and he'd be out anyway. If people really think he has broken laws start building a case now for prosecution after he's out (it'll probably take that long [or longer] to get a good case together anyway) but impeachment isn't going to gain anyone anything IMHO.


[1] Then again, maybe X has a point
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Old 04-30-07, 12:06 PM
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on what charge?
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Old 04-30-07, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatikk
on what charge?
Not doing what the Democrats want, apparently.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatikk
on what charge?
High Crimes and Misdemeanors of course.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatikk
on what charge?
Being a member of the Bush family I guess... or maybe just because he has an R after his name (I suspect that's enough for some people out there)

Seriously, I suspect people are angling for the "lying/misrepresenting" the led up to the Iraq war and the mismanagement of the same. I'm not sure what specific charges they think they might be able to get him on though.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
High Crimes and Misdemeanors of course.
Has Bush lied under oath? No.

Did he invade a sovereign nation without the approval of Congress? No.

(I think) that about covers it.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Has Bush lied under oath? No.

Did he invade a sovereign nation without the approval of Congress? No.

(I think) that about covers it.
You're killing my buzz here man.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Has Bush lied under oath? No.

Did he invade a sovereign nation without the approval of Congress? No.

(I think) that about covers it.
Like this country needs a reason to impeach the president. Isn't that what congress is for, or any government for that reason. To waste time and our money.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:28 PM
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No, he shouldn't be impeached.

As wendersfan says - the congress approved of the use of force against Iraq. If congress really wants to do something that makes some sense - simply rescind the use of force resolution. If Bush continued the war after that, you might have a real Constitutional issue. As it now stands, there isn't one.

People like John Murtha are simply appealing toward the extreme anti-war wing of the Democratic Party. That's not where the American people are - regardless of what some of the media may say.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:39 PM
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No, of course not. He's an awful president, but he's done nothing impeachable.
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Old 04-30-07, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Has Bush lied under oath? No.

Did he invade a sovereign nation without the approval of Congress? No.

(I think) that about covers it.
Well, no. Actually, there are several specific charges you could bring against Bush for the purposes of impeachment... presenting Congress with false information and invading a sovereign nation "preemptively" would lead the parade of charges, but you could also point to his admitted violation of FISA, complicity in violations of the Hatch Act and the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, condoning the use of torture (Title 18, Section 113C, as well as the UN Torture Convention and the Geneva Convention) as well as paying US media sources to promote governmental programs in violation of US propaganda law, as well as possible complicity in vote fraud in Florida in 2000, and in Ohio in 2004. And that assumes that the series of no-bid contracts that he has authorized to corporate cronies in no way leads to charges of bribery or (moreso) treason.

Having said all of that... the question (cynically) breaks down into should and would. Should Congress take time to impeach a lame-duck President? If he is guilty of any one of the charges mentioned above (and there is little question that the law was broken, although the many layers of command in the Administration may shield Bush from direct prosecution)... well, then, yes. Yes, of course. It should go without saying that he should be impeached. Any government official who breaks US law should be held to a higher standard and face impeachment and prosecution. Wishing it away by pointing to the President's remaining time in office is pointless. Waving it off by saying we don't want to start up a pattern of 2nd term impeachment is just folly. Worrying about how much time it would take, or how much money it would cost, especially when the vote count may not be favorable, is essentially a dereliction of duty. If George Bush committed "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors" then it is the constitutional duty of Congress to vote to impeach. Plain and simple.

Now... would Congress vote to impeach? No. No, I don't think so. It has been a long, long time since the Democratic Party has favored principle over popularity. And the time when the Republican Party was honorable enough to put partisanship aside and look fairly and objectively at all charges is long, long passed.

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Old 04-30-07, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
People like John Murtha are simply appealing toward the extreme anti-war wing of the Democratic Party. That's not where the American people are - regardless of what some of the media may say.
Are you representing Jack Murtha as an extreme anti-war Congressman? You might want to check Murtha's record.
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Old 04-30-07, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Waving it off by saying we don't want to start up a pattern of 2nd term impeachment is just folly.
After seeing the Republicans abuse the impeachment process and things like the recall election in CA, I don't want politics to be reduced to that. Then every time you have a split Executive and Legislative branch you WILL have an impeachment. We need to take a step back from the constant impeachment talk. There is nothing the President has done that doesn't have plausible deniability, so in essence, there is no case. God, I can't believe I'm defending George W Bush.
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Old 04-30-07, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
God, I can't believe I'm defending George W Bush.
Try to think of it as hoping the Democrats never stoop to the level of Republicans.
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Old 04-30-07, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
After seeing the Republicans abuse the impeachment process and things like the recall election in CA, I don't want politics to be reduced to that. Then every time you have a split Executive and Legislative branch you WILL have an impeachment. We need to take a step back from the constant impeachment talk. There is nothing the President has done that doesn't have plausible deniability, so in essence, there is no case. God, I can't believe I'm defending George W Bush.
Well, except for his admitting he broke the FISA law. And lying to Congress in his 2003 SOTU address. And it's worth mentioning that conviction is not a prerequisite for impeachment -- the burden of proof is much, much lower than in a criminal trial.

And I don't see the "every time you have a split Executive and Legislative branch you WILL have an impeachment" logic at all. I don't see the Democratic Party being that shallow, despite the complete and utter lack of faith that I have in them at this point. Or to put it another way -- it would take a truly corrupt, truly galvanizing individual to unite the Democratic Party behind an impeachment process. A President McCain, a President Guiliana... I just don't see it.

And I think the GOP learned their lesson in 1998 and 2006 about going too far with partisan gamesmanship. Impeaching a President Obama or a Senator Edwards (or even, once again, a President Clinton) without substantial public support is just bad for business. The public doesn't want to see a return to the GOP-led Congress of the past 6 years -- any elected official is going to be expected to exercise their Constitutionally-mandated checks and balances to keep the Executive Branch in line. (That last thought may be wishful thinking on my part... but I hope we never see a return to the bad days of Tom Delay and Trent Lott.)
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Old 04-30-07, 01:41 PM
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can you impeach a vice-president?
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Old 04-30-07, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
can you impeach a vice-president?
I don't know, but I know the president can't just replace him. You have to get him to resign. THANK YOU, 24!!!!
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Old 04-30-07, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
can you impeach a vice-president?
Yes. Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
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Old 04-30-07, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
can you impeach a vice-president?
yes. and Dennis Kucinich is or was drafting articles of impeachment against Cheney. that was a few weeks ago, he put it on hold after the VT shooting, haven't heard much of it since...?
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Old 04-30-07, 02:12 PM
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What has he done to be impeached?

you can't impeach someone just because you don't like him...or because he doesn't have good rythm on Malaria Day
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Old 04-30-07, 02:13 PM
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You might want to actually read the thread. NCMojo's post at least.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=14
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Old 04-30-07, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
People like John Murtha are simply appealing toward the extreme anti-war wing of the Democratic Party. That's not where the American people are - regardless of what some of the media may say.
But haven't most of the polls showed over half of democrats support impeachment?
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