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If you were a Brit held by Iran, what would you do? If you were Britain?

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If you were a Brit held by Iran, what would you do? If you were Britain?

Old 03-29-07, 06:25 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
And while I didn't advocate what you are saying, are you advocating just kissing Iran's ass?
Yes, its the defeatocrat thing to do.

sheesh.
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Old 03-29-07, 06:35 PM
  #27  
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Actually, that makes me think. The House and Senate has both passed the "cut and run on a specific date" bill. When Bush gives the veto and it goes back to congress, if every Republican abstained from the vote, how do you think it would come out?

Personally, I would love to see the Republicans do this, but not because it is good for the country, so it is really just a pipe dream.
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Old 03-29-07, 06:37 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Jason
Yes, its the defeatocrat thing to do.

sheesh.
Also, did I jump to a further conclusion that you did? I assume you know what the Stockdale Maneuver is.
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Old 03-29-07, 08:19 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bronkster
One question I have about the Iranians making (presumably) the girl wear a scarf - isn't that forcing her to submit to their religion? If the Brits (or U.S.) did something like that to a muslim captive, wouldn't it cause outrage?
Possibly, but I like to think our ideals, morals, and culture are superior to theirs, so the comparison isn't really appropriate. I expect better from us.
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Old 03-29-07, 09:05 PM
  #30  
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We had our female AF pilots wear headscarfs whenever they got out of their planes in the Saudi air bases. I guess, having a base there, the least they could do was respect their religion.


I think some people fail to understand that some of these people have families and very much want to survive this thus they may have to put up with Iran's circus demands. Not everyone wants to go out as the suicidal Japanese warriors. Sure, lose some honor but live another day.
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Old 03-29-07, 09:31 PM
  #31  
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This is going to be another drawn-out hostage situation, and the only way they are coming back alive is:

1) The UK and US start an ops to find them.

2) The UK pays a shitload of money.

Money or Action. That's the only solution. Iran will never agree to anything else, and they are extorting the modern world.

Bush should make a public statement that Iran, by taking these hostages, are demonstrating to the world they could not possibly handle nuclear power in a civil way.

This act by Iran tilts my "let's give them a chance" scale.

But we should remember. If we were COMPLETELY out of that fucking area, stuff like this may not happen at all. Countries like Iran would have to blatantly come out of their waters and into ours, which would easily justify a massive retaliation against them.

But alas, the "Western Forces" have become rather passive. Apaprently, some people were concentrating too much on Iraq.

I say give Iran what it wants. Get the hostages back. Then bomb all of their refineries and modern structures.
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Old 03-30-07, 09:26 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Also, did I jump to a further conclusion that you did? I assume you know what the Stockdale Maneuver is.
I googled it and find nothing. I suppose I just have to assume you are referring to some lethal attack created by this guy:



Who am I? Why am I here?
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Old 03-30-07, 09:36 AM
  #33  
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You suck at teh internets.

<b>Prisoner of war</b>

On a mission over North Vietnam on September 9, 1965, Stockdale ejected from his A-4E Skyhawk, which had been disabled from anti-aircraft fire. Stockdale parachuted into a small village, where he was severely beaten and taken into custody.

He was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, Stockdale beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. He told them in no uncertain terms that they would never use him. When Stockdale heard that other prisoners were dying under the torture, he slit his wrists and told them that he preferred death to submission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Stockdale
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Old 03-30-07, 09:39 AM
  #34  
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I googled "Stockdale Maneuver" - I didn't actually think it had anything to do with the Admiral. Wow, he was hardcore!
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Old 03-30-07, 09:44 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
I googled "Stockdale Maneuver" - I didn't actually think it had anything to do with the Admiral. Wow, he was hardcore!
Yeah, that's why it's somewhat tragic that he's best known for that misinterpreted philosophical musing on national TV, along with Phil Hartman's performance on SNL...
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Old 03-30-07, 10:10 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
I googled "Stockdale Maneuver" - I didn't actually think it had anything to do with the Admiral. Wow, he was hardcore!
What makes people think a Stockdale would work with the Iranian govermnent. Iran is slowly going into existence denial. They may kill a hostage to prove a point. And would the UK and US retaliate? Well, that's up for debate. But I'm sure Iran would get really really really tough sanctions for killing a hostage and would get a really really really tough statement from Blair. Oh, and Bush.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:14 AM
  #37  
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What we need is Ross Perot.

They're not going to kill any hostages.

Despite the rantings of Fox News - Iran doesn't want war.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:23 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by classicman2
What we need is Ross Perot.

They're not going to kill any hostages.

Despite the rantings of Fox News - Iran doesn't want war.
Iran DOES want war... but they want it on their terms and in their timing and with a specific nation... and it ain't the US.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:25 AM
  #39  
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I would pray that Bush and Blair with the help of Ollie North successfully transmitted the secret funds to bring Chuck Norris and his Delta Force out of retirement and when they burst thru the wall in their armored Hummers to save the day I wouldnt be in front of that wall-and if I was, that I would be able to get out of the way in "real time" instead of in slow-motion style..

Barring that, I'd ask how the Brits and Iranians can both claim to have GPS that says two different things regarding whose water who was in. Cuz, you know, both sides are righteous and upstanding and things like USS Liberty and Golf of Tonkin and a host of other "weird conspiracy stuff" never really happens...
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Old 03-30-07, 10:27 AM
  #40  
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Iran doesn't want any war.

They realize what the results would be - interruption of the flow of Persian Gulf oil. They damn sure don't want that. Their economy depends on it.

They do want to be a (probably the major) player in the area.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:27 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Despite the rantings of Fox News - Iran doesn't want war.
I'm not sure why they are trotting out the captives then. And making them make bogus capitulation statements.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:28 AM
  #42  
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Didn't other POWs send not so subliminal signals(like extending their middle finger) when being paraded on TV by their captors in the past? The purpose being to let everyone at home know that the statements they were making were forced.
I remember seeing something on the history channel on this. I've never heard of the Stockdale thing.
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Old 03-30-07, 10:30 AM
  #43  
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Iran is not a monolith.

There are competing powers in Iran.
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Old 03-30-07, 12:01 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by CRM114
I googled "Stockdale Maneuver" - I didn't actually think it had anything to do with the Admiral. Wow, he was hardcore!
He was amazingly hardcore. I remember an interview with him on the History Channel (or something), and he basically said that if there had to be a POW that it should be him, because he was somehow wired for it. An amazing life and amazing things he did to make sure he wasn't used to further the enemy's cause.
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Old 03-30-07, 12:13 PM
  #45  
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C3100512ED.htm
Iranian television has broadcast an interview with a captured British marine in which he admitted to entering Iranian waters illegally and apologised to the Iranian people. "I deeply apologise for entering your waters." The Iranian embassy in London also released a third letter it said was written by Turney on Friday, in which she said she had been "sacrificed due to the intervening policies of the Bush and Blair governments". ...
Originally Posted by Jason
So, basically, you would fradulently deform yourself in order to stir public opinion in your homeland against your captors, causing people to put pressure on the government for a military solution over a diplomatic one, possibly starting a war.

Nice.
So much better to be used for enemy propaganda.

It's telling that the Brits went to the UN and asked them for a strongly worded letter. I cannot imagine them doing something like that in the past.
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Old 03-30-07, 02:13 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Duran
Possibly, but I like to think our ideals, morals, and culture are superior to theirs, so the comparison isn't really appropriate. I expect better from us.
Our culture and value system are superior to them? Isn't that ethnocentrism?? Being the "Arroganant American"??? Xenophobia??!!
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Old 03-30-07, 02:18 PM
  #47  
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That's why they hate us.
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Old 03-30-07, 03:13 PM
  #48  
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Despite the rantings of Fox News - Iran doesn't want war.
LOL! Yeah, they don't want war. They just want to nuke Israel off the face of the planet!!! LOL!!!!!!!
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Old 03-30-07, 03:15 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth
LOL! Yeah, they don't want war. They just want to nuke Israel off the face of the planet!!! LOL!!!!!!!

Quick reality check, Iran doesn't have nukes, Israel does.
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Old 03-30-07, 03:16 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by darkessenz
This whole situation is provoking me. I can't believe the UN is pussy footing around...their moral lapse is pathetic. They sent a letter encouraging the soldier's release. WTF?
That threat in "Team America" to "send a letter" was not a joke. That's what they do! That's all they're good for!!!
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