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Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral

Old 03-12-07, 11:40 PM
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Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/...ilitary_gays_4

WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday he considers homosexuality to be immoral and the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace likened homosexuality to adultery, which he said was also immoral, the newspaper reported on its Web site.

"I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way," Pace told the newspaper in a wide-ranging interview.

Pace, a native of Brooklyn, N.Y., and a 1967 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, said he based his views on his upbringing.

He said he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay men and women are allowed in the military as long as they keep their sexual orientation private. The policy, signed into law by President Clinton in 1994, prohibits commanders from asking about a person's sexual orientation.

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said.

The newspaper said Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops, including more than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged because of the policy.

With Democrats in charge of Congress, Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., has introduced legislation to reverse the military's ban on openly serving homosexuals.
Wasn't killing people once considered immoral? How about commanding others to kill without questioning the order? I guess those are okay.
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Old 03-12-07, 11:50 PM
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Marine Gen. Peter Pace likened homosexuality to adultery, which he said was also immoral, the newspaper reported on its Web site.
Wonder if he'd favor kicking out all the adulterers in the military?
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Old 03-12-07, 11:55 PM
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Doesn't he know that he now has to announce going to rehab.
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Old 03-13-07, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk
Doesn't he know that he now has to announce going to rehab.
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Old 03-13-07, 01:53 AM
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Speaking of rehab, Ted Haggard invited Mr. Pace over for a special Bible reading...
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Old 03-13-07, 06:26 AM
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<i>Mod note: It's not fair to reference banned members who can't speak for themselves</i>

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Old 03-13-07, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Wonder if he'd favor kicking out all the adulterers in the military?
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Old 03-13-07, 08:10 AM
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"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said.

So, he doesn't believe it's immoral if the sex is between three or more?


"He has a right to his opinion."

Yes he does and I have a right to mine. I think he's wrong.
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Old 03-13-07, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LiquidSky
"He has a right to his opinion."

Yes he does and I have a right to mine. I think he's wrong.
Don't fall for this canard, LiquidSky. Sure he has a right to an opinion, but his opinion means a hell of a lot more to the situation than yours or mine ever will.

This is akin to saying that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has a right to an opinion about Roe v Wade. No shit. So the fuck what? What does that even mean? His opinion is newsworthy and for many offensive (and for others, perhaps like Vandelay it is not so offensive).
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Old 03-13-07, 09:16 AM
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Perhaps I should dedicate one of my all-male xxx reviews to him
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Old 03-13-07, 09:19 AM
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So does this mean that anyone now claim they are an adulterer and get out of the military?

...and exactly what does he think all those straight guys do when they go on leave?
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Old 03-13-07, 09:36 AM
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How can you say this:

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said.
and also say this:

He said he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell policy."
Either it's immoral and you shouldn't condone it, or it's acceptable to turn a blind eye. You can't have it both ways, General Pace.

If I were the C-in-C, I would tell General Pace that when I want his opinion on policy decisions, I will ask for it. Otherwise, he should just keep his mouth shut and do his job.
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Old 03-13-07, 09:42 AM
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JasonF,

That is his job - making, recommending, and discussing the operations of the military - including the personnel.

Now you may not agree with his position......
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Old 03-13-07, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
JasonF,

That is his job - making, recommending, and discussing the operations of the military - including the personnel.

Now you may not agree with his position......
I thought he was mouthing off to the Tribune, which is inappropriate, IMO.

Re-reading the article, it appears he may have been testifying before Congress, which is appropriate (although I still wonder how he can say he supports Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell and at the same time say homosexuality should not be condoned).
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Old 03-13-07, 10:03 AM
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I do have a problem with his 'immoral' comment. I don't believe that comment was necessary. I do believe he should tell the congress how his views on the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of the military.
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Old 03-13-07, 11:49 AM
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A little further research has revealed that he was being interviewed by the Chicago Tribune. Under those circumstances, I believe it's not appropriate for him to opine on the policy.
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Old 03-13-07, 12:02 PM
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I think kicking out military Arabic translators because of their sexual orientation is immoral, but hey, who cares about terrorism or protecting the country when we've got **** to ferret out?
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Old 03-13-07, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I think kicking out military Arabic translators because of their sexual orientation is immoral, but hey, who cares about terrorism or protecting the country when we've got **** to ferret out?
I think kicking anyone out of the military because of their sexual orientation is immoral. I think kicking Arabic transaltors out is just plain stupid.
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Old 03-13-07, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
I think kicking anyone out of the military because of their sexual orientation is immoral. I think kicking Arabic transaltors out is just plain stupid.
I agree, of course. I just find the Arabic translator thing particularly galling.
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Old 03-13-07, 12:54 PM
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Funny how, in the end, getting rid of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" boils down to trying to combat the religious bigotry of a couple key generals at the top. I hope he's getting plenty of heat for his comments, especially from all the generals past and present who actually understand the situation.

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Old 03-13-07, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Paging digifr...oh nevermind.
mod note - We don't need to be discussing departed members. Thanks.
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Old 03-13-07, 01:32 PM
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As a few have pointed out, there really is no logic to condemning something, then saying "don't ask, don't tell" is ok.

But then, logic doesn't seem to be his strong point. C'mon - he's saying that homosexuality (an orientation) is equivilant to adultery (an activity). That's like saying anyone who desires to acquire some money should be considered the same as a bank robber.
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Old 03-13-07, 01:35 PM
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I have no problem with Pace telling the press how he feels about the policy of 'don't ask - don't tell.' He shouldn't have made the 'immoral' comment, IMO.

If more of the military felt free to tell things to the press, perhaps we might be in a different position in Iraq.

Of course by doing so they must be willing to accept the consequences.
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Old 03-13-07, 02:10 PM
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Gen Pace is likely gay himself.
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Old 03-13-07, 02:24 PM
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Quoting from towleroad (gay blogger):
http://www.towleroad.com/2007/03/aides_pace_will.html

General Pace Expresses Regret Over Anti-Gay Comments

Without going so far as to make an apology, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Peter Pace expressed regret Tuesday over his comments that homosexuals are immoral and should not be allowed to serve openly in the military.

According to the AP, "In a statement Tuesday, he said he should have focused more in the interview on the Defense Department policy about gays ó and 'less on my personal moral views.'"

Pace's recent comments came after outrage from gay advocacy groups as well as statements from aides close to Pace, who said that the general would not apologize for his comments:

"Pace's senior staff members said Tuesday that the general was expressing his personal opinion and had no intention of apologizing. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to speak on the record."

Rep. Martin Meehan, who recently introduced legislation to repeal the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, criticized Pace, who is also the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Said Meehan: "General Pace's statements aren't in line with either the majority of the public or the military. He needs to recognize that support for overturning (the policy) is strong and growing (and that the military is) turning away good troops to enforce a costly policy of discrimination.''

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed disappointment at Pace's remarks at a news conference today: "I was disappointed in the moral judgment that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs made this morning, or whenever it was, reported this morning, and I was more interested in the statement made by Gen. Shalikashvilii, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, when he said that, 'If America is ready for a military policy of nondiscrimination based on sexual orientation, the timing of the change should be carefully considered.' I think the military should carefully consider changing the policy. We need the most talented people, we need the language skills, we need patriotic Americans who exist across the board in our population. We donít need moral judgment from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs."

AP Wire story on Pace's semi-backpedal:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/...litary_gays_14
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