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Ann Coulter refers to John Edwards as a "******"; Dean & Dems Angry.

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Ann Coulter refers to John Edwards as a "******"; Dean & Dems Angry.

Old 03-06-07, 06:07 PM
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Gay conservative Andrew Sullivan was in the room at the time, and here's his blog entry on the matter:
I watched Ann Coulter last night in the gayest way I could. I was on a stairmaster at a gym, slack-jawed at her proud defense of calling someone a "faggot" on the same stage as presidential candidates and as an icon of today's conservative movement. The way in which Fox News and Sean Hannity and, even more repulsively, Pat Cadell, shilled for her was a new low for Fox, I think - and for what remains of decent conservatism. "We're all friends here," Hannity chuckled at the end. Yes, they were. And no faggots were on the show to defend themselves. That's fair and balanced.

I'm not going to breathe more oxygen into this story except to say a couple of things that need saying. Coulter has an actual argument in self-defense and it's worth addressing. Her argument is that it was a joke and that since it was directed at a straight man, it wasn't homophobic. It was, in her words, a "school-yard taunt," directed at a straight man, meaning a "wuss" and a "sissy". Why would gays care? She is "pro-gay," after all. Apart from backing a party that wants to strip gay couples of all legal rights by amending the federal constitution, kick them out of the military where they are putting their lives on the line, put them into "reparative therapy" to "cure" them, keep it legal to fire them in many states, and refusing to include them in hate crime laws, Coulter is very pro-gay. As evidence of how pro-gay she is, check out all the gay men and women in America now defending her.

Her defense, however, is that she was making a joke, not speaking a slur. Her logic suggests that the two are mutually exclusive. They're not. And when you unpack Coulter's joke, you see she does both. Her joke was that the world is so absurd that someone like Isaiah Washington is forced to go into rehab for calling someone a "faggot." She's absolutely right that this is absurd and funny and an example of p.c. insanity. She could have made a joke about that - a better one, to be sure - but a joke. But she didn't just do that. She added to the joke a slur: "John Edwards is a faggot." That's why people gasped and then laughed and clapped so heartily. I was in the room, so I felt the atmosphere personally. It was an ugly atmosphere, designed to make any gay man or woman in the room feel marginalized and despised. To put it simply, either conservatism is happy to be associated with that atmosphere, or it isn't. I think the response so far suggests that the conservative elites don't want to go there, but the base has already been there for a very long time. (That's why this affair is so revealing, because it is showing which elites want to pander to bigots, and which do not.)

Coulter's defense of the slur is that it was directed at an obviously straight man and so could not be a real slur. The premise of this argument is that the word faggot is only used to describe gay men and is only effective and derogatory when used against a gay man. But it isn't. In fact, in the schoolyard she cites, the primary targets of the f-word are straight boys or teens or men. The word "faggot" is used for two reasons: to identify and demonize a gay man; and to threaten a straight man with being reduced to the social pariah status of a gay man. Coulter chose the latter use of the slur, its most potent and common form. She knew why Edwards qualified. He's pretty, he has flowing locks, he's young-looking. He is exactly the kind of straight guy who is targeted as a "faggot" by his straight peers. This, Ms Coulter, is real social policing by speech. And that's what she was doing: trying to delegitimize and feminize a man by calling him a faggot. It happens every day. It's how insecure or bigoted straight men police their world to keep the homos out.

And for the slur to work, it must logically accept the premise that gay men are weak, effeminate, wusses, sissies, and the rest. A sane gay man has two responses to this, I think. The first is that there is nothing wrong with effeminacy or effeminate gay men - and certainly nothing weak about many of them. In the plague years, I saw countless nelly sissies face HIV and AIDS with as much courage and steel as any warrior on earth. You want to meet someone with balls? Find a drag queen. The courage of many gay men every day in facing down hatred and scorn and derision to live lives of dignity and integrity is not a sign of being a wuss or somehow weak. We have as much and maybe more courage than many - because we have had to acquire it to survive. And that is especially true of gay men whose effeminacy may not make them able to pass as straight - the very people Coulter seeks to demonize. The conflation of effeminacy with weakness, and of gayness with weakness, is what Coulter calculatedly asserted. This was not a joke. It was an attack.

Secondly, gay men are not all effeminate. In the last couple of weeks, we have seen a leading NBA player and a Marine come out to tell their stories. I'd like to hear Coulter tell Amaechi and Alva that they are sissies and wusses. A man in uniform who just lost a leg for his country is a sissy? The first American serviceman to be wounded in Iraq is a wuss? What Coulter did, in her callow, empty way, was to accuse John Edwards of not being a real man. To do so, she asserted that gay men are not real men either. The emasculation of men in minority groups is an ancient trope of the vilest bigotry. Why was it wrong, after all, for white men to call African-American men "boys"? Because it robbed them of the dignity of their masculinity. And that's what Coulter did last Friday to gays. She said - and conservatives applauded - that I and so many others are not men. We are men, Ann.

As members of other minorities have been forced to say in the past: I am not a faggot. I am a man.
The word has always been alot of things, from a fairly harmless taunt to the last words a bashed gay man is likely to hear... And Andrew's on-the-money when he points out that as boys, straight men are just as oppressed by the word as gay men... It's how men keep each other in line.
Old 03-06-07, 06:11 PM
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Her response....
<embed width="425" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q77BONfKOfA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed>

Here also... http://hotair.com/archives/2007/03/0...er-on-oreilly/
Old 03-06-07, 06:25 PM
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Andrew Sullivan hit every nail on the head. Too bad he wasn't on with the Coultergeist on Hannity & Colmes last night.

Speaking of decent conservatives, I'd love to be able to see Barry Goldwater take this indecent woman apart as he no doubt would have done. Unfortunately, I do not see any Goldwater caliber person in the Republican Party or the conservative movement today. Or, just as sadly, in the Democratic Party or liberal movement.
Old 03-06-07, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
Andrew Sullivan hit every nail on the head. Too bad he wasn't on with the Coultergeist on Hannity & Colmes last night.
Yeah. That was a great read. And I agree with 95% of it. The rest of it made me think. When I'm done thinking, I'll probably agree with 100% of it.

Why? Because he didn't go around calling Coulter names! Instead, he addressed his concerns with what she said. Each and every point. And he even addressed her defense of what she said. In an intelligent manner! As a result, it made me think and take what he had to say very seriously. He didn't call her a "man" or a "****" or wish her career to fail. He addressed what she had to say! Wow!

Many people on this thread should learn from this guy.
Old 03-06-07, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
A person's choice of words says something about their character, don't you think?
I think you're over emphasizing word usage. This whole story is so over blown.

So is everyone thats typed faggot here in the forum, or any news reporter or analyst that has said it a bigot? Somebody I was playing basketball with today called someone else a ***. It was just a basketball argument. I don't think the guy is now hanging outside a gay bar waiting to punch the first person that comes out.

I can see why people are offended by the use of the word, but I cant see why in the Coulter case. I defenitely don't understand the sheer amount of offense since it occurred. People are all on their high horses now, and see a chance to take down someone they didn't like even before it happened.

Face the facts, whether its right or not the 'f-word' to probably 8 out of 10 people is just a word to make fun of someone, not to hate on gays. Again, whether its right or not, either before Ann or before Isiah Washington probably the vast majority of people who are now appalled, didn't care one bit about the word before it was getting national attention.

But on a lighter note, as discussed with some of my other political friends:

Ann 'The Man' Coulter vs John 'Boyish Charm' Edwards...steel cage, no disqualification...mannish smirk vs photogenic smile

who wins?
Old 03-06-07, 07:09 PM
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......The word "faggot" is used for two reasons: to identify and demonize a gay man; and to threaten a straight man with being reduced to the social pariah status of a gay man. ............And that's what she was doing: trying to delegitimize and feminize a man by calling him a faggot. It happens every day. It's how insecure or bigoted straight men police their world to keep the homos out.

And for the slur to work, it must logically accept the premise that gay men are weak, effeminate, wusses, sissies, and the rest. .............The conflation of effeminacy with weakness, and of gayness with weakness, is what Coulter calculatedly asserted. This was not a joke. It was an attack.
I think that's a very objective and astute analysis of Coulter's motives.
Old 03-06-07, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by IMRICKJAMES
Its about time someone else sees the joke as what it was. Funny how quickly Isiah Washington escapes peoples memory when they have a chance to nail Ann Coulter to a cross.

I can't understand how so many people riding on their high horses still had a joke fly right over their head. The I'd (fill in the blank) but (fill in the consequence) joke is probably hundreds of years old.
Go back and reread the thread, please. You'll see that many people who are criticizing Coulter are very aware that she was alluding to Isaiah Wahsington. So what? A hate-filled, bigoted joke that contains an allusion is still a hate-filled bigoted joke.

And yes, lines like "I'd call you a dog turd but I don't want to get in trouble with the DVDTalk mods" are older than dirt, but if you or I tried it around here, I'm sure X or VinVega or one of the other mods would take us to task for it. And rightly so -- hiding a personal attack behind passive aggressive language doesn't change the fact that it's a personal attack.
Old 03-06-07, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by IMRICKJAMES

Ann 'The Man' Coulter vs John 'Boyish Charm' Edwards...steel cage, no disqualification...mannish smirk vs photogenic smile

who wins?
Celebrity Deathmatch!
Old 03-06-07, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by IMRICKJAMES
I think you're over emphasizing word usage.
And I think you're under emphasizing word usage. It is a vulgar term. Simple as that. I curse but not very often and I know that if I was giving a speech in front of people, I would refrain from using any such terms.

When that baseball manager got in trouble for using slurs against some sports writer who was critical of him, I didn't defend him, but I did point out that there seems to be a double standard when it comes to vulgar terms. Calling someone the n-word should be equally repugnant as somene calling someone a SOB.

But that's a separate issue, "merely" taunting someone using such terms is, at the very least, childish and classless.
Old 03-06-07, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by IMRICKJAMES
You are creating a ridiculously high standard. Yes, she was at a conservative event, but that by no means makes her some sort of Republican insider and some how is the voice of the party. The Republican leadership cant be held responsible for what every speaker at every conference, rally, fundraiser, etc says...just like the Democrats can't be held responsible for everything some hollywood nut says at a fundraiser, or what liberal talk show hosts say or anything like that.

Oh and the reason people laughed? hmmm maybe cause it was a JOKE!! Everyone must have lost their short term memory, I can't imagine everyone already forgot how Isiah Washington went to rehab over saying one word.

My last thought...its pretty strange how apparently one womans ranting can be held against a whole group of people and some how becomes a standard for half the country. Is it really progressive and liberal to lump everyone into one single stereotype?
Why was Ann chosen to speak at this place? Was it because she DIDN'T speak for Republicans?

Please don't try to defend this idiot. She is losing supporters left and right ( no pun intended), not to mention losing advertisers on her website who think her verbage is childish and politically retarded.

It was a joke? Apparently you don't have the mental capacity to figure out Ann was using the "rehab" thing to say something rather crude about a political candidate. Seriously, this was humor, but it was also mixed with sly accusation. It was not "just a joke".

Why would Ann make an empty joke about Isaiah W. at a Republican get-together? It doesn't make sense unless you have a crude remark you'd like to make about someone, and THEN it could be conveyed as a joke. If you don't understand what Ann's intentions were, then the joke is on you.

...just like the Democrats can't be held responsible for everything some hollywood nut says at a fundraiser, or what liberal talk show hosts say or anything like that.
And finally, I disagree that if Democrats had someone show up at a fundraiser or Democratic event and said the same thing as Ann did only referring to Bush, we they would NOT be held responsible. I would hold them responsible. Because these events are not held on a whim. They are planned. And speakers are there for a reason.
Old 03-06-07, 08:57 PM
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Again with the name calling... This is why I can't take anyone on this board seriously.
Old 03-06-07, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Her response....
<embed width="425" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q77BONfKOfA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed>

Here also... http://hotair.com/archives/2007/03/0...er-on-oreilly/
What a complete fucking moron.

The word "faggot" has nothing to do with being gay?

Old 03-06-07, 10:20 PM
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I love the term "semantic totalitarianism."
Old 03-06-07, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
What a complete fucking moron.

The word "faggot" has nothing to do with being gay?

Perfect example of those who lie so much, they actually believe themselves. She needs to be Vice President.
Old 03-06-07, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth
Again with the name calling... This is why I can't take anyone on this board seriously.
Because I called Ann an "idiot"....?
Old 03-06-07, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth
Again with the name calling... This is why I can't take anyone on this board seriously.
The feeling is mutual.

Signed, this board.
Old 03-06-07, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Her response....
<embed width="425" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q77BONfKOfA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed>

Here also... http://hotair.com/archives/2007/03/0...er-on-oreilly/
so, her whole basis for rationalizing the "joke" is that liberals made some guy go to rehab? huh....that's....interesting.
Old 03-07-07, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Was it because she DIDN'T speak for Republicans?
What about this don't you understand. No one person speaks for an entire group.

Ann Coulter speaking at an event isn't the Republicans speaking. Its Ann Coulter speaking. She is a conservative voice, but she isn't THE voice of conservatives. To be a little Lebowskiesque thats like her opinon dude.

I don't understand how you can think her statement was so horrible and bring up that people on the left and right are condemning her. So apparently she isn't speaking for Republicans is she? Which one is it?

I just don't get people like you. This is holier than thou 2007, but apparently its still ok for one person to represent an entire group...or is it just groups you already didnt like? So using your crazy logic seeing that a black man committed a murder on the news tonight all black men are violent criminals bent on killing. The other day when I saw a hispanic woman slap her kid in the face at Wal Mart...guess all hispanics are psychotic child abusers. Cops have beat suspects before...guess all cops are bloodthirsty and uncontrollable. My cousin is gay so for all I know all people in Georgia are gay. Don't you understand that your logic of lumping Ann Coulter and all Republicans together is just a little flawed?
Old 03-07-07, 02:23 AM
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I think it has something to do with the fact that the group she was speaking to - conservatives - clapped and laughed uproariously and nodded in agreement. I'd hazard a guess that the other hispanics in walmart did not stand and applaud the woman you saw abuse her child. your logic is entirely unsound here...shocking.
Old 03-07-07, 02:40 AM
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gee maybe they laughed 'uproariously' (and watching the video its definitely not uproariously) because they understood it as a joke, just as it was intended.

I'm sure you dissected the video and found out that every single person there clapped and laughed so yeah, I guess you should just renamed the GOP to the Grand Ol Anns. I mean every single person in attendance and every conservative that watched the video or read it in the papers had to have just laughed and clapped hysterically in one huge bigoted outburst, right?

Theres probably 100 million people in the country that would say they are conservative/Republican if asked to choose between that, liberal/Democrat or neither and you are telling me that the only people that don't think exactly like Ann Coulter are Mitt Romney and the other 08 candidates?
Old 03-07-07, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
I understand that it was a reference to Isaiah Washington and his going into rehab over saying that f-word but that point could easily have been made without using the word and without rather inexplicably bringing in John Edwards.
If she wanted to make a joke like that, she could've called Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore "sugartits."
Old 03-07-07, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
Her response....
<embed width="425" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q77BONfKOfA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed>

Here also... http://hotair.com/archives/2007/03/0...er-on-oreilly/

how ironic the link has "HOT AIR" it in
Old 03-07-07, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by brizz
I think it has something to do with the fact that the group she was speaking to - conservatives - clapped and laughed uproariously and nodded in agreement.
I'd love to know exactly how many of them understood it the way she meant it or were just laughing and applauding because they heard Faggot.
Old 03-07-07, 08:28 AM
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IMRICKJAMES should go on the limbo circuit.
Old 03-07-07, 08:40 AM
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Ann Coulter needs to be sent to Bellevue. She's obviously unhinged.

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