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Riot control in America?

Old 03-02-07, 08:59 AM
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Riot control in America?

I live in Denmark, and yesterday we had some pretty intense riots, more than 800 people walked the narrow streets of Inner Copenhagen wrecking havoc, attacking police cars and vans, destroying shop exteriors, creating road blocks etc. etc. The offenders were mostly anarchistic socialist and Muslim immigrants.

The police here, well it was quite clear they didn't have the capacity to deal with this. There were 6-7 bonfires in the streets, some dangerously close to the adjacent buildings. And demonstrators succeeded in smashing windows on the police trucks and basically keeping that part of the city in chaos. The police fired tear gass, arrested some but FAR from many, and that was about it.

How are riots and crowds like these handled in America? The police basically fired teargass and arrested...no water cannons, no rubber bullets (they don't use either of these!) no police sticks, nothing..arrests and teargass.

I'd like to know how this stuff is handled in say America.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:22 AM
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I think more or less the same. A lot of the response seems to depend upon the reason behind the riot, who is rioting and how out of control they are. You're probably more likely to see batons/asps used but it's not a given. There's also some more high tech gear (foam, sound "cannons", etc) they are trying to get out into the field to help out, but I'm not sure how common it is yet.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
I think more or less the same. A lot of the response seems to depend upon the reason behind the riot, who is rioting and how out of control they are. You're probably more likely to see batons/asps used but it's not a given. There's also some more high tech gear (foam, sound "cannons", etc) they are trying to get out into the field to help out, but I'm not sure how common it is yet.
fact is, the police here did NOT have control. Yes, they had handguns, and in most extreme of circumstances they would've used them. But other than that, police had no control. The rioters could flip cars over in the streets, wreck havoc and attack police cars as they saw fit. I couldn't imagine the US handling this with the same suicidal pacifism as here.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:33 AM
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The rioters could flip cars over in the streets, wreck havoc and attack police cars as they saw fit. I couldn't imagine the US handling this with the same suicidal pacifism as here.
I could. I'm not sure but I think one approach sometimes is to contain the riot to a specific location, let the rioters "burn" themselves out a bit (aka wait until they start getting tired) and then you bring in the troops to break it up. So within the area of the riot there may not be much control but the area around the riot should be under control/contained. As far as property damage and cars there's been plenty of examples of that in the US after some sports team (usually college) wins a big game. So it sucks being within the zone but that doesn't necessarily mean it is completely out of control... hopefully I'm not sure what happened there yesterday.

Last edited by nemein; 03-02-07 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:38 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070301...h_070301212926

COPENHAGEN (AFP) - Danish police clashed with hundreds of activists protesting the forced eviction of squatters from a radical cultural centre in a notoriously rough neighbourhood of Copenhagen.

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More than 150 people, including minors and foreigners, were arrested during riots that erupted after a dawn raid on the Ungdomshuset youth centre in the Noerrebro district.

Clashes continued throughout the day and reached a crescendo in the evening when up to 1,000 youths attacked police with stones, bottles, pots of paint and firecrackers, and set up barricades, lit fires and overturned vehicles.

Riot police used tear gas in an attempt to disperse the demonstrators, some of whom were masked.

But by late Thursday the violence had spread from Noerrebro to the nearby Christianshavn district.

Christianshavn is next to the so-called "free city" of Christiania, an autonomous community in the city set up more than 30 years ago.

The four-storey Ungdomshuset at the centre of the violence has been a haven for rebels, punks and squatters since the 1980s, when it was given to them by the city of Copenhagen.

The building was recently sold to a fundamental Christian sect, which has demanded the eviction of the youths. The sect plans to tear the building down.

An August 2006 court ruling ordered the occupants to be evicted from the centre, which they insist belongs to them.

The Ungdomshuset website says the group is run along five simple guidelines: no sexism, no "heterosexism" -- prejudice in favour of heterosexuals -- no racism, no hard drugs and no violence.

The no violence heading reads: "Violence is a common means of oppression and we do not tolerate it. There is always a greater force than any individual -- our unity."

It goes on: "Of course we see a difference between violence being used to oppress others and defending oneself against it."

It was not known how many people have been injured in Thursday's violence. One person was known to have been injured during the morning riots and was taken to hospital, police spokesman Flemming Steen Munch said.

Danish television TV2 reported that the injured man was a German citizen who had sustained head injuries.

One Noerrebro resident described the operation as something resembling "the dismantling of a terrorist network."

The Noerrebro neighbourhood is home to a large population of young radicals and squatters and is the scene of regular flare-ups with police. In May 1993, bloody clashes erupted in the district following Denmark's "yes" vote to the EU Maastricht Treaty.

Some of the parents of the youths had in recent weeks stood guard outside the building day and night to protect their children against a possible police offensive.

"Why can't we have an alternative building for young people," asked Sophie, an 18-year-old punk who watched from afar as police cleaned up a smouldering barricade during a lull in the clashes.

She and her 17-year-old friend Kyra said they frequented Ungdomshuset to "attend underground concerts and plays," or when they were angry with their parents.

Some onlookers at the scene were critical of the Danish police action.

Kristina Ilsoe, a Roskilde University professor who watched the events with her three-year-old son at her side, said she was "sad, like most of the neighbours, to see so-called tolerant Denmark not leave room for those who don't fit the norm."

Some banks and stores in the area barricaded their entrances to protect their businesses from the riots.

Police said meanwhile they were re-establishing border controls to prevent an influx of the youths' supporters from other countries, in particular Germany.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:49 AM
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Yep. Bunch of socialist anarchists and communists with no regard for property rights and democracy.

And many of our politicians sympathize with them. You see, in many ways Scandinavia is closer to communism than the late Soviet Union was... "why can't they just have a house". For fucks sake, give them YOUR house then. It's the equivalent of me saying "why can't I have a million bucks! Give me a million bucks or I'll start a riot".

Many Danes are social-democrats, ie. democratic socialism, favoring heavy regulation of private business, major taxation and welfare, etc. etc. The liberal left times ten. No wonder they sympathize with the young anarchists.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
Yep. Bunch of socialist anarchist and communists with no regard for property rights and democracy.
Where I live they're called "college students after a loss to Michigan."
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Old 03-02-07, 09:59 AM
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Here in America, we have quiet riots. Cum on feel the noize!
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Old 03-02-07, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
Yep. Bunch of socialist anarchists and communists with no regard for property rights and democracy.
Otherwise known as teenagers.
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Old 03-02-07, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by crazyronin
Otherwise known as teenagers.
damn teenagers!
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Old 03-02-07, 12:51 PM
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What the hell does Socialism and Communism have to do with pimple-popping shitheads who like to rebel against authority? I guess Capitalistic Teenagers in the US would NEVER do such a thing. Oh no. Oh no, indeed. Never.
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Old 03-02-07, 12:53 PM
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Oh my fucking god. We've been rioting in America for a long time, and the police have about as much control in our riots as they do in yours. They're RIOTS, for Chrissake.
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Old 03-02-07, 12:58 PM
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What the hell does Socialism and Communism have to do with pimple-popping shitheads who like to rebel against authority? I guess Capitalistic Teenagers in the US would NEVER do such a thing. Oh no. Oh no, indeed. Never.
I don't think anyone said/implied that. I think Parcher mentioned the political philosophies to help set the context for the situation and explain why those people were in the building in the first place. Capitalistic Teenagers riot too, as mentioned just look at some of the silliness after some sporting events, it's just for different reasons though.


Please let's not turn this into another -ism debate
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Old 03-02-07, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
What the hell does Socialism and Communism have to do with pimple-popping shitheads who like to rebel against authority? I guess Capitalistic Teenagers in the US would NEVER do such a thing. Oh no. Oh no, indeed. Never.
I will tell you what socialism and communism have to do with it.
The whole conflict is/was about a house. One little ugly house that the young people invaded years ago and took control of. The authorities never got around to evoking the unlawful invaders, but the local authorities gave the people permisssion to stay in the house until a buyer was found. A buyer was found, and the young people had to leave. It was NOT THEIR PROPERTY. But they didn't want to leave, because they argued either: A. it was suddenly their property and B. no one has right to property. And they had a lot of support from the socialist politicans (and of course the communists too) and that's quite a lot of the population here.

By the very definition you cannot ruin other peoples' property and be capitalist at the same time. Capitalism requires respect for property rights. Please get facts straight. A thief is not a capitalist, a factory owner who steals the possessions of his employees is not a capitalist. Capitalism simply requires respect for private ownership, this right cannot be violated.
But of course a lot of the rioters were Islamofascists too, yelling things about the police, democracy and Israel. Woho.
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Old 03-02-07, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
By the very definition you cannot ruin other peoples' property and be capitalist at the same time. Capitalism requires respect for property rights.
That would be true if we were all machines, perhaps. However, we're not, and there are plenty of people who claim to believe in markets and property rights, yet will act in a contradictory manner when there's some selfish, immediate goal in front of them.

Or are you saying that every teenage punk vandal is socialist? No, they're just teenage punk vandals.
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Old 03-02-07, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Or are you saying that every teenage punk vandal is socialist? No, they're just teenage punk vandals.
I will not argue that every person can act irrational at times. Of course not. But in the very moment that US teenagers riot they are not acting consistent with their beliefs. In the moment rioters here attack police cars, they are.
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Old 03-02-07, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
In the moment rioters here attack police cars, they are.
And I would argue that your belief says a lot more about your political attitudes than those of the rioters.
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Old 03-02-07, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
And I would argue that your belief says a lot more about your political attitudes than those of the rioters.
What does that gibberish mean?
My political attitude, ie. leaving people alone and acting peacefully?
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Old 03-02-07, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
I will tell you what socialism and communism have to do with it.
The whole conflict is/was about a house. One little ugly house that the young people invaded years ago and took control of. The authorities never got around to evoking the unlawful invaders, but the local authorities gave the people permisssion to stay in the house until a buyer was found. A buyer was found, and the young people had to leave. It was NOT THEIR PROPERTY. But they didn't want to leave, because they argued either: A. it was suddenly their property and B. no one has right to property. And they had a lot of support from the socialist politicans (and of course the communists too) and that's quite a lot of the population here.

By the very definition you cannot ruin other peoples' property and be capitalist at the same time. Capitalism requires respect for property rights. Please get facts straight. A thief is not a capitalist, a factory owner who steals the possessions of his employees is not a capitalist. Capitalism simply requires respect for private ownership, this right cannot be violated.
But of course a lot of the rioters were Islamofascists too, yelling things about the police, democracy and Israel. Woho.
How about we get the facts straight and say you're grouping the words "Socialism" and "Communist" into a totally irrelevant category of criminals and rebellious youth.

You can't ruin other people's property and be capitalist at the same time? Gee, I guess all the vandalism in the US is done by Socialists and Communists?

Capitalism has NOTHING to do with respect for property. Respect for property is a basic concept of human meloriation and civilization--in short, it's just a courtesy "normal" humans extend to each other because they wouldn't want their property fucked up. It has nothing to do with political affiliation.

What you are stating in your situation, is a bunch of kids who refused to get out of a house and broke the law when they refused to leave when a buyer was found. There is absolutely NOTHING Socialist or Communist about that situation.
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Old 03-02-07, 02:23 PM
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What do you know about the situation here, you fool? Do you live in Denmark? These groups are SELF-PROCLAIMED socialists and nihilists. Oh my god, please stop your moronic ignorant rambling.

You can't ruin other people's property and be capitalist at the same time? Gee, I guess all the vandalism in the US is done by Socialists and Communists?
Did you learn logic in the insane asylum? Have I ANYWHERE stated that EITHER you are a capitalist person with a consistent respect for property rights OR you are a destructive socialist? NO. Jesus Christ, I might as well be arguing with an infant since you appearently make up things that just are not true.

Capitalism has NOTHING to do with respect for property. Respect for property is a basic concept of human meloriation and civilization--in short, it's just a courtesy "normal" humans extend to each other because they wouldn't want their property fucked up. It has nothing to do with political affiliation.
oh my fucking god You have GOT to be kidding, everyone come to this thread and view first hand the insanity of DVDpolizei who does not grasp the very basic and simple concept of CAPITALISM/PRIVATE OWNERSHIP wherein is implied a respect for property.

That is like saying there is no redistribution in a welfare state, or saying the world is flat.

What you are stating in your situation, is a bunch of kids who refused to get out of a house and broke the law when they refused to leave when a buyer was found. There is absolutely NOTHING Socialist or Communist about that situation.
Again you make statements about issues you know nothing about. You know NOTHING about the political situation of Denmark. The liberal left? We ARE the liberal left, times ten, everywhere. There is one - BORDERLINE MAYBE two - political parties out of 7 here that are NOT social-democractic and do NOT favor major taxation. Are you ignorant of the fact that almost all politicans and almost the entire population here is social-democratic? Please, do not spew anymore nonsens about relations you know nothing about. The youth that is causing all this is HIGHLY political, and with HEAVY political support.

You are so ignorant it hurts. You DO NOT KNOW what things are like here, you simply DO NOT KNOW. I don't make statements about things I don't know, and neither should you.

Are you ignorant of the fact that many foreigners from other semi-socialist countries have been stopped at the border carrying weapons and armor? That molotov cocktails, knives, and flamethrowers were found inside the house?

Please, you know nothing. You know nothing about the youth here, the country, the political situation, the conflict..anything. Ask yourself honestly how much about my lame-ass country you know? Yes, very little, so please stop typing and go on defending idiots and ignoring reality somewhere else.

Last edited by Parcher; 03-02-07 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 03-02-07, 02:32 PM
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I'm sorry for the uh, misunderstanding.

By the very definition you cannot ruin other peoples' property and be capitalist at the same time. Capitalism requires respect for property rights. Please get facts straight. A thief is not a capitalist, a factory owner who steals the possessions of his employees is not a capitalist. Capitalism simply requires respect for private ownership, this right cannot be violated.
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Old 03-02-07, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei


I'm sorry for the uh, misunderstanding.
Where do you see the contradiction???? Did someone else just walk in here? Are you in fact having a conversation with yourself? Have you ever heard of capitalism?
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Old 03-02-07, 02:38 PM
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You're mixing political affiliations with criminal acts. Period. That's retarded.

Also, I wanted to add I am truly sorry for your problem in your country, but I just think you're grouping the wrong nomenclatures together and coming up with some rather wild assumptions.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 03-02-07 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 03-02-07, 02:43 PM
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What do you know about the situation here, you fool? ... Oh my god, please stop your moronic ignorant rambling.

You're mixing political affiliations with criminal acts. Period. That's retarded.
<i>Mod note: Both of you have been around here long enough to know we discourage this sort of bickering/name calling. Please knock it off</i>
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