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US Constitution

Old 01-16-07, 08:29 PM
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US Constitution

Some time ago I remember somewhat clearly reading the US Constitution - a document I am rather fond of since it's much better than the constitution here in my ridiculous country - and I think I remember reading that not only is it the right of the people to rise against (a democractically elected) tyrant should he seize power, but it is also a duty.

But reading the Constitution agian, I can't seem to find it Can any of you people help me?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:32 PM
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right to bear arms = form militias that possibly can overthrow the government.

2nd amendment.

my guess.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:33 PM
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I believe that might be in the Declaration of Independence. (but I'm not sure and didn't search)
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Old 01-16-07, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by The Declaration of Independence
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
This?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:36 PM
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Exactly Tracer, thanks.

I love reading quotes from the founding fathers, they were great moral men and great thinkers. America is/was such a great project.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:38 PM
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Yeah like that will ever happen. Any sign of exercising the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Governmentand you'd be hand cuffed and thrown in Gitmo.
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Old 01-16-07, 08:40 PM
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Isn't the DoI separate from the Constitution?
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Old 01-16-07, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
Yeah like that will ever happen. Any sign of exercising the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Governmentand you'd be hand cuffed and thrown in Gitmo.
Yes, but not if a sufficient amount of the population did so.

Anyway, I realize now this might belong in the political section, sorry about that

Ranger> I guess the const. is a true legal argument, but couldn't one in court use the declaration of independence to fill in and elaborate on the "spirit" of the Constitution?
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Old 01-16-07, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Parcher

Ranger> I guess the const. is a true legal argument, but couldn't one in court use the declaration of independence to fill in and elaborate on the "spirit" of the Constitution?

Alan Shore probably could.
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Old 01-16-07, 09:10 PM
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The people clearly have the right through election and referendum to change the government by peaceful means. As long as they do, the government can't be sufficiently badly out of synch with the majority to warrant revolution.

That was quite different when the government was basically the King, and a Parliament in which we were totally unrepresented, and England's actions towards the colonies despotic.

Through elections, we get to peaceably overthrow the government every two years in the House of Representatives, four years, the Executive branch, and six years the Senate. Given our penchant to reelect incumbents, we don't exercise the right very much. I think the American Civil War is proof that the time to do it by violent means has passed (although just in case, we preserve our right to bear arms.)
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Old 01-16-07, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
The people clearly have the right through election and referendum to change the government by peaceful means. As long as they do, the government can't be sufficiently badly out of synch with the majority to warrant revolution.

That was quite different when the government was basically the King, and a Parliament in which we were totally unrepresented, and England's actions towards the colonies despotic.

Through elections, we get to peaceably overthrow the government every two years in the House of Representatives, four years, the Executive branch, and six years the Senate. Given our penchant to reelect incumbents, we don't exercise the right very much. I think the American Civil War is proof that the time to do it by violent means has passed (although just in case, we preserve our right to bear arms.)
Agree, but what about in 50 years? 100 years? 150 years? Things will of course change... I don't believe this is the "end of history". It's all hypothetical though, but I don't think it's so unrealistic to imagine it.
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Old 01-17-07, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
Agree, but what about in 50 years? 100 years? 150 years? Things will of course change... I don't believe this is the "end of history". It's all hypothetical though, but I don't think it's so unrealistic to imagine it.
While it is possible that a tyrant could find his/her way into the white house, the more likely scenario would be a civil war or mass unrest sparked over other matters and the government taking a side. This could happen as soon as 2009 when children go on a rampage for the next Grand Theft Auto game and Hillary orders them all shot on sight.
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Old 01-17-07, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
The people clearly have the right through election and referendum to change the government by peaceful means. As long as they do, the government can't be sufficiently badly out of synch with the majority to warrant revolution.

That was quite different when the government was basically the King, and a Parliament in which we were totally unrepresented, and England's actions towards the colonies despotic.

Through elections, we get to peaceably overthrow the government every two years in the House of Representatives, four years, the Executive branch, and six years the Senate. Given our penchant to reelect incumbents, we don't exercise the right very much. I think the American Civil War is proof that the time to do it by violent means has passed (although just in case, we preserve our right to bear arms.)
electing incumbents has nothing to do with electing a tyrant

to be a tyrant you need the support of millions of people to do your bidding. always has been this way and always will be
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Old 01-17-07, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
electing incumbents has nothing to do with electing a tyrant

to be a tyrant you need the support of millions of people to do your bidding. always has been this way and always will be
Countdown to Bush reference... 3... 2... 1...
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Old 01-17-07, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
While it is possible that a tyrant could find his/her way into the white house
Could?

<center>
"History's Greatest Monster"</center>
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Old 01-17-07, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Through elections, we get to peaceably overthrow the government every two years in the House of Representatives, four years, the Executive branch, and six years the Senate.
[Constitution nerd]Actually, the Senate is a continuing body -- we're on our 110th House of Representatives (and, consequently, our 110th Congress), and our 43rd executive administration, but Constitutionally speaking, we've still got the same Senate that approved George Washington's treaties and Supreme Court Appointments. Neat![/Constitution nerd]
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Old 01-17-07, 04:43 PM
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George Washington and the founding fathers were awesome.
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Old 01-17-07, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Parcher
George Washington and the founding fathers were awesome.
They also killed people with their bare hands. Well, maybe with gloves.
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Old 01-17-07, 04:54 PM
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and some of them hated each other with a passion due to political views
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