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China is a human rights nightmare

Old 04-20-06, 10:33 AM
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China is a human rights nightmare

And no one in the US cares, in fact we even help them.

World: China, Iran Lead In Executions In 2005:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/27b63fe6-cf...0779e2340.html

Amnesty gives a minimum figure of 1,770 for China, but quotes unnamed <b>Chinese legal experts and state officials estimating the toll at between 8,000 and 10,000 people a year. More than 60 crimes there carry the death penalty, ranging from <font color="red">tax fraud</font> and embezzlement to drugs offences.</b>
Bush meeting with Chinese Leader
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...-CHINA-USA.xml
Bush will press Hu on opening up China's markets to American products and moving faster on making the currency more flexible to help lower the U.S. trade deficit with Beijing that reached $202 billion last year.
Report Alleges Yahoo Helped China Again
http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/19/yah...acescan10.html
A free press advocacy group has published a verdict from Chinese authorities that may implicate Yahoo! as having provided evidence for the Communist state to prosecute one of its users for subversion.
What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. The whole relationship with them makes me sick.
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Old 04-20-06, 10:38 AM
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Odd, I just read this...

Originally Posted by eXcentris
Sure they have Human Rights issues but they are (slowly) going in the right direction.
from another thread. http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462805

Do you agree or is China making no progress?
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Old 04-20-06, 10:42 AM
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Seems to me, the bigger a goliath they become, the more they are able to get away with these atrocities. Remember when we used to criticize this government and didn't even want to give them favored trade status? Now we invite them here so we can try and shake them down for loose change and say nothing of the fact they murder people who cheat on their taxes.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Seems to me, the bigger a goliath they become, the more they are able to get away with these atrocities. Remember when we used to criticize this government and didn't even want to give them favored trade status? Now we invite them here so we can try and shake them down for loose change and say nothing of the fact they murder people who cheat on their taxes.


I don't like China, I don't trust them, and I cetainly don't defend them, but what do you propose is done about them? Will isolation of some sort work, if it is even possible, or will it worsen the situation?
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Old 04-20-06, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nazgul
Odd, I just read this...

from another thread. http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462805

Do you agree or is China making no progress?
Yes they are making (slow) progress.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:04 AM
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Human rights always takes a back seat to financial rights. If human rights takes center stage, you can bet that financial rights are the reason.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Seems to me, the bigger a goliath they become, the more they are able to get away with these atrocities. Remember when we used to criticize this government and didn't even want to give them favored trade status? Now we invite them here so we can try and shake them down for loose change and say nothing of the fact they murder people who cheat on their taxes.
That's what happens when
1) you base your economy around buying shit
2) you let another country make all that shit

However, we are China's biggest market. If we were mature, we might tell them to shape up or we'd stop buying their crap. Since that would cause some economic problems, we'll never do it.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:08 AM
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And since I believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, it would be rather ironic for the US to be giving morality lessons to China in that regard.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
That's what happens when
1) you base your economy around buying shit
2) you let another country make all that shit

However, we are China's biggest market. If we were mature, we might tell them to shape up or we'd stop buying their crap. Since that would cause some economic problems, we'll never do it.
I think it's truly better to engage in free trade with everyone. I think it has a slow but steady freedom effect. As people become more prosperous and don't have to worry every day where their next meal is coming from they start wanting more wealth and, dare I say, more freedom to live their lives as they choose.

Our boycotting them just makes them less wealthy and gives their govenment an enemy for them to get their people to blame for their woes. What have boycotts of places like Cuba or Iraq ever accomplished?
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Old 04-20-06, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
I think it's truly better to engage in free trade with everyone. I think it has a slow but steady freedom effect. As people become more prosperous and don't have to worry every day where their next meal is coming from they start wanting more wealth and, dare I say, more freedom to live their lives as they choose.
I agree with you to a point, but I also don't see the harm in criticizing China more strongly or a citizen boycott of Chinese-made consumer goods. I certainly wouldn't want to see a government embargo- like you said, they don't accomplish the desired result and bring a lot of suffering to people.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:46 AM
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It's too late to really be critical of China when we have the trade deficit that we have with them.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
I agree with you to a point, but I also don't see the harm in criticizing China more strongly or a citizen boycott of Chinese-made consumer goods. I certainly wouldn't want to see a government embargo- like you said, they don't accomplish the desired result and bring a lot of suffering to people.
And I have nothing against criticizing the rights record of China. I do it myself.

I also have nothing against personal, private boycotts because it's every person's right to trade or not trade with whom they choose. I wouldn't do that myself, however, because I think it's counter-productive to advancing freedom in China.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:48 AM
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But you believe that capitalism necessarily brings freedom.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
But you believe that capitalism necessarily brings freedom.


No, economic growth and prosperity brings freedoms.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
And I have nothing against criticizing the rights record of China. I do it myself.

I also have nothing against personal, private boycotts because it's every person's right to trade or not trade with whom they choose. I wouldn't do that myself, however, because I think it's counter-productive to advancing freedom in China.

You really weren't supposed to answer my question.

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Old 04-20-06, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
Yes they are making (slow) progress.
The number of executions doesn't seem to validate this. Not to mention the obscene amount of censorship. I think they are just getting better at covering it all up to everyone else.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
And since I believe that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, it would be rather ironic for the US to be giving morality lessons to China in that regard.
Bzzzztttt wrong. We don't execute anyone for cheating on their taxes or posting something that criticizes the gov't on the Internet.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:58 AM
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Our boycotting them just makes them less wealthy and gives their govenment an enemy for them to get their people to blame for their woes. What have boycotts of places like Cuba or Iraq ever accomplished?
Nothing. My whole point is we go after piddly places like Cuba where they didn't even make this list, it's all for show to garner political support in Miami, while China is literally getting away with murder and no one says peep. Even Amnesty International is more comfortable with making gitmo a headline, when that pales in comparison to stuff that goes on in China.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
But you believe that capitalism necessarily brings freedom.
I've perceived a trend.
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Old 04-20-06, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Bzzzztttt wrong. We don't execute anyone for cheating on their taxes or posting something that criticizes the gov't on the Internet.
Irrelevant.
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Old 04-20-06, 12:03 PM
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It's a good thing barbaric Canada, which has a horrific record on animal cruelty, doesn't give morality lessons to anyone either. They don't right?
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Old 04-20-06, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Even Amnesty International is more comfortable with making gitmo a headline, when that pales in comparison to stuff that goes on in China.
Not quite. Amnesty International are pretty good at reporting on human rights issues, regardless of the country. Go to their website. Plenty of scathing reports on China.
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Old 04-20-06, 12:09 PM
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Oh I realize, but I always get the feeling they are more comfortable in calling out the US than China. Even the release of this current information coincides with the Bush/Hu visit, making Bush looking bad for dealing with this guy, which he fully deserves though.
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Old 04-20-06, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eXcentris
Yes they are making (slow) progress.
No. They WERE making slow progress. But happy Mr. Hu Jintao decides to do away with all of that "progress", and ever since he came to power human rights have been backsliding at an alarming rate.

He makes Jiang Zemin look good - that's saying something.
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Old 04-20-06, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
But you believe that capitalism necessarily brings freedom.
Which would be false. See: Singapore.
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