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HOORAY for Bill Cosby

Old 04-04-06, 01:30 PM
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HOORAY for Bill Cosby

Tells it like it is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060402/...s_protest_dc_1

Entertainer Bill Cosby urged New Orleans' black population on Saturday to cleanse itself of a culture of crime as it rebuilds from the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina last year.

Cosby, whose criticism of some aspects of modern African-American culture has stirred controversy in recent years, told a rally headed by black leaders that the city needed to look at the "wound" it had before Katrina struck.

"It's painful, but we can't cleanse ourselves unless we look at the wound," Cosby told the rally of about 2,000 people in front of the city's convention center.

"Ladies and gentlemen, you had the highest murder rate, unto each other. You were dealing drugs to each other. You were impregnating our 13-, 12-, 11-year-old children," he said.

"What kind of a village is that?"


Cosby sparked heated debate in 2004, when he criticized blacks whom he said were putting a higher priority on music and fashion than on education and morality.

Before Katrina killed more than 1,300 people and displaced hundreds of thousands, New Orleans had nearly half a million residents, 70 percent of them black. An estimated 30 percent of the city had incomes below the poverty line.

Less than half the population has returned to the heavily damaged city and evacuees remain scattered across the country. Many of those who have come back are whites who lived in affluent areas that were less affected by flooding.

Other speakers, including civil rights activists Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, denounced what they said was an attempt by state and federal officials to disenfranchise the evacuees in April 22 local elections by not setting up out-of-state voting stations.

Jackson said evacuees should be allowed to vote in "satellite" polling places outside the state, just as Iraqi and Mexican expatriates have cast ballots from the United States in elections in their home countries.

"If we in fact can use this technology for Mexican-Americans and Mexico, then we ought to," Jackson said. "If we can use this technology for Iraqi-Americans in America to Baghdad, then we ought to. We can use the same technology for New Orleanians, wherever they are in America."

Voting stations will be available at 10 sites in Louisiana outside of New Orleans, but state officials have said casting ballots outside the state is not allowed.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who is black and faces 21 challengers in his re-election campaign, said not enough was being done to guarantee a fair vote.

"We deserve to be treated like Americans," he said.
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Old 04-04-06, 01:50 PM
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Good for him. Tough love, but most people don't like the truth when it doesn't favor the way they live.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
Good for him. Tough love, but most people don't like the truth when it doesn't favor the way they live.

True that!


The world needs a lot of "tough love" these days
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Old 04-04-06, 02:02 PM
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"I agree."
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Old 04-04-06, 02:09 PM
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Following Morgan Freeman's lead...glad to hear it.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:15 PM
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I pay precious little attention to what Bill Cosby says.

Probably the majority in the audience paid even less attention.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
I pay precious little attention to what Bill Cosby says.

Probably the majority in the audience paid even less attention.
Then why is there always a thunderstorm afterward from the black community?
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Old 04-04-06, 02:21 PM
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Here's an article written by Orlando Patterson on blacks and poverty.
Prof. Patterson is black by the way. Some blacks might find it controversial.


A Poverty of the Mind
By ORLANDO PATTERSON

Cambridge, Mass.

SEVERAL recent studies have garnered wide attention for reconfirming the tragic disconnection of millions of black youths from the American mainstream. But they also highlighted another crisis: the failure of social scientists to adequately explain the problem, and their inability to come up with any effective strategy to deal with it.

The main cause for this shortcoming is a deep-seated dogma that has prevailed in social science and policy circles since the mid-1960's: the rejection of any explanation that invokes a group's cultural attributes its distinctive attitudes, values and predispositions, and the resulting behavior of its members and the relentless preference for relying on structural factors like low incomes, joblessness, poor schools and bad housing.

Harry Holzer, an economist at Georgetown University and a co-author of one of the recent studies, typifies this attitude. Joblessness, he feels, is due to largely weak schooling, a lack of reading and math skills at a time when such skills are increasingly required even for blue-collar jobs, and the poverty of black neighborhoods. Unable to find jobs, he claims, black males turn to illegal activities, especially the drug trade and chronic drug use, and often end up in prison. He also criticizes the practice of withholding child-support payments from the wages of absentee fathers who do find jobs, telling The Times that to these men, such levies "amount to a tax on earnings."

His conclusions are shared by scholars like Ronald B. Mincy of Columbia, the author of a study called "Black Males Left Behind," and Gary Orfield of Harvard, who asserts that America is "pumping out boys with no honest alternative."

This is all standard explanatory fare. And, as usual, it fails to answer the important questions. Why are young black men doing so poorly in school that they lack basic literacy and math skills? These scholars must know that countless studies by educational experts, going all the way back to the landmark report by James Coleman of Johns Hopkins University in 1966, have found that poor schools, per se, do not explain why after 10 years of education a young man remains illiterate.

Nor have studies explained why, if someone cannot get a job, he turns to crime and drug abuse. One does not imply the other. Joblessness is rampant in Latin America and India, but the mass of the populations does not turn to crime.

And why do so many young unemployed black men have children several of them which they have no resources or intention to support? And why, finally, do they murder each other at nine times the rate of white youths?

What's most interesting about the recent spate of studies is that analysts seem at last to be recognizing what has long been obvious to anyone who takes culture seriously: socioeconomic factors are of limited explanatory power. Thus it's doubly depressing that the conclusions they draw and the prescriptions they recommend remain mired in traditional socioeconomic thinking.

What has happened, I think, is that the economic boom years of the 90's and one of the most successful policy initiatives in memory welfare reform have made it impossible to ignore the effects of culture. The Clinton administration achieved exactly what policy analysts had long said would pull black men out of their torpor: the economy grew at a rapid pace, providing millions of new jobs at all levels. Yet the jobless black youths simply did not turn up to take them. Instead, the opportunity was seized in large part by immigrants including many blacks mainly from Latin America and the Caribbean.

One oft-repeated excuse for the failure of black Americans to take these jobs that they did not offer a living wage turned out to be irrelevant. The sociologist Roger Waldinger of the University of California at Los Angeles, for example, has shown that in New York such jobs offered an opportunity to the chronically unemployed to join the market and to acquire basic work skills that they later transferred to better jobs, but that the takers were predominantly immigrants.

Why have academics been so allergic to cultural explanations? Until the recent rise of behavioral economics, most economists have simply not taken non-market forces seriously. But what about the sociologists and other social scientists who ought to have known better? Three gross misconceptions about culture explain the neglect.

First is the pervasive idea that cultural explanations inherently blame the victim; that they focus on internal behavioral factors and, as such, hold people responsible for their poverty, rather than putting the onus on their deprived environment. (It hasn't helped that many conservatives do actually put forth this view.)

But this argument is utterly bogus. To hold someone responsible for his behavior is not to exclude any recognition of the environmental factors that may have induced the problematic behavior in the first place. Many victims of child abuse end up behaving in self-destructive ways; to point out the link between their behavior and the destructive acts is in no way to deny the causal role of their earlier victimization and the need to address it.

Likewise, a cultural explanation of black male self-destructiveness addresses not simply the immediate connection between their attitudes and behavior and the undesired outcomes, but explores the origins and changing nature of these attitudes, perhaps over generations, in their brutalized past. It is impossible to understand the predatory sexuality and irresponsible fathering behavior of young black men without going back deep into their collective past.

Second, it is often assumed that cultural explanations are wholly deterministic, leaving no room for human agency. This, too, is nonsense. Modern students of culture have long shown that while it partly determines behavior, it also enables people to change behavior. People use their culture as a frame for understanding their world, and as a resource to do much of what they want. The same cultural patterns can frame different kinds of behavior, and by failing to explore culture at any depth, analysts miss a great opportunity to re-frame attitudes in a way that encourages desirable behavior and outcomes.

Third, it is often assumed that cultural patterns cannot change the old "cake of custom" saw. This too is nonsense. Indeed, cultural patterns are often easier to change than the economic factors favored by policy analysts, and American history offers numerous examples.

My favorite is Jim Crow, that deeply entrenched set of cultural and institutional practices built up over four centuries of racist domination and exclusion of blacks by whites in the South. Nothing could have been more cultural than that. And yet America was able to dismantle the entire system within a single generation, so much so that today blacks are now making a historic migratory shift back to the South, which they find more congenial than the North. (At the same time, economic inequality, which the policy analysts love to discuss, has hardened in the South, like the rest of America.)

So what are some of the cultural factors that explain the sorry state of young black men? They aren't always obvious. Sociological investigation has found, in fact, that one popular explanation that black children who do well are derided by fellow blacks for "acting white" turns out to be largely false, except for those attending a minority of mixed-race schools.

An anecdote helps explain why: Several years ago, one of my students went back to her high school to find out why it was that almost all the black girls graduated and went to college whereas nearly all the black boys either failed to graduate or did not go on to college. Distressingly, she found that all the black boys knew the consequences of not graduating and going on to college ("We're not stupid!" they told her indignantly).

SO why were they flunking out? Their candid answer was that what sociologists call the "cool-pose culture" of young black men was simply too gratifying to give up. For these young men, it was almost like a drug, hanging out on the street after school, shopping and dressing sharply, sexual conquests, party drugs, hip-hop music and culture, the fact that almost all the superstar athletes and a great many of the nation's best entertainers were black.

Not only was living this subculture immensely fulfilling, the boys said, it also brought them a great deal of respect from white youths. This also explains the otherwise puzzling finding by social psychologists that young black men and women tend to have the highest levels of self-esteem of all ethnic groups, and that their self-image is independent of how badly they were doing in school.

I call this the Dionysian trap for young black men. The important thing to note about the subculture that ensnares them is that it is not disconnected from the mainstream culture. To the contrary, it has powerful support from some of America's largest corporations. Hip-hop, professional basketball and homeboy fashions are as American as cherry pie. Young white Americans are very much into these things, but selectively; they know when it is time to turn off Fifty Cent and get out the SAT prep book.

For young black men, however, that culture is all there is or so they think. Sadly, their complete engagement in this part of the American cultural mainstream, which they created and which feeds their pride and self-respect, is a major factor in their disconnection from the socioeconomic mainstream.

Of course, such attitudes explain only a part of the problem. In academia, we need a new, multidisciplinary approach toward understanding what makes young black men behave so self-destructively. Collecting transcripts of their views and rationalizations is a useful first step, but won't help nearly as much as the recent rash of scholars with tape-recorders seem to think. Getting the facts straight is important, but for decades we have been overwhelmed with statistics on black youths, and running more statistical regressions is beginning to approach the point of diminishing returns to knowledge.

The tragedy unfolding in our inner cities is a time-slice of a deep historical process that runs far back through the cataracts and deluge of our racist past. Most black Americans have by now, miraculously, escaped its consequences. The disconnected fifth languishing in the ghettos is the remains. Too much is at stake for us to fail to understand the plight of these young men. For them, and for the rest of us.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:33 PM
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Old 04-04-06, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
Here's an article written by Orlando Patterson on blacks and poverty.

Prof. Patterson is black by the way. Some blacks might find it controversial.

Some whites might find it hard to read.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:47 PM
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blah blah blah Who cares what celebrities say blah blah blah Why can't they just keep their mouths shut blah blah blah

All kidding aside, I applaud what Cosby says, but I doubt he carries much weight with the kinds of people who need to hear what he's saying.
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Old 04-04-06, 02:48 PM
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Cosby's solution - I'm a multi-millionaire, why can't you be one?

All you need is to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.
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Old 04-04-06, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Cosby's solution - I'm a multi-millionaire, why can't you be one?

All you need is to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.
Bill Cosby wasn't born a multi-millionaire. He worked hard for what he's got. I admire him for saying what other people won't.
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Old 04-04-06, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Cosby's solution - I'm a multi-millionaire, why can't you be one?

All you need is to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.


He needs a government program. Black people can't succeed without one.
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Old 04-04-06, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Cosby's solution - I'm a multi-millionaire, why can't you be one?

All you need is to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.
I think he's just saying stop killing each other and stealing from each other. That's not such a horrible message. It's certainly an easy one to deliver when you're looking down from 30,000 ft on the little people, so how much weight it will carry is questionable.
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Old 04-04-06, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by classicman2
Cosby's solution - I'm a multi-millionaire, why can't you be one?
Interesting. That's what you hear when someone says:

"Ladies and gentlemen, you had the highest murder rate, unto each other. You were dealing drugs to each other. You were impregnating our 13-, 12-, 11-year-old children," he said.

"What kind of a village is that?"
I hear "You've got to stop killing each other, you've got to stop dealing drugs to each other, and you've got to stop promoting a culture in which babies have babies."

I didn't hear the Cos suggest that this was the key to wealth and riches, but I guess we listen with different ears.
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Old 04-04-06, 05:12 PM
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Maybe he should buy Chris Rock's 'Niggas vs Black people' routine and give a free copy to everyone he meets....
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Old 04-04-06, 06:30 PM
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http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...26/172901.html

<-- One reason George Mason University is more than just a great basketball school.

Ammunition for poverty pimps

Oct 26, 2005
by Walter E. Williams

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive."

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

Guess what the president and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.

Since 1980, Dr. Williams has served on the faculty of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics.
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Old 04-04-06, 07:00 PM
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If Bill Cosby would let me, I'd marry that man. He's my hero. Maybe even better than MLK in regards to telling it how it is, instead of victimizing their own group of people.

P.S. Apologies to Summer_Wind for making his fear of homosexuals even worse.
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Old 04-04-06, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
P.S. Apologies to Summer_Wind for making his fear of homosexuals even worse.
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Old 04-04-06, 10:08 PM
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Old 04-04-06, 11:40 PM
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Good post, movielib. Walter Williams is an amazing thinker.
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Old 04-05-06, 03:42 AM
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I'm pro-Cosby
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Old 04-05-06, 04:20 AM
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I would respect Bill Cosby if he wasn't such a bitter old has been hypocrite who alegedlly sexually harrasses women and get's them pregnant. I'm also sick of hearing him come out against some more adult oriented entertainment.
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Old 04-05-06, 07:34 AM
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great article movielib.

But I still say screw Cosby. And it's not that I disagree. Hell, I've said some of the same things to my black friends.

I just think he's an arrogant Bastard.
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