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"Pacifist group revealed as moral imbeciles" column by Ian Robinson

Old 04-02-06, 06:29 AM
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"Pacifist group revealed as moral imbeciles" column by Ian Robinson

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnis...1/1515910.html
By Ian Robinson


When the three Western hostages were rescued by coalition forces in Iraq last week and returned to Canada, was I the only one who was disappointed?

Was I the only one who thought: Dear Lord. Is THIS what all the fuss was about?

These smarmy, international busybodies, the Gladys Kravitzes of the Iraq occupation, peering out at the world from behind the curtains with their pursed little disapproving lips?

These sanctimonious, reality challenged little creeps?

And even after the release, the organization to which they're attached was still taking metaphorical shots at the coalition of troops who rescued them.

"As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to non-violence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues," their press release said.

What would the hostages have done if shots had been fired? Voluntarily returned to captivity?


If ever a group wasn't worth the effort and risk to free them, it's these guys.

NOTE TO CHRISTIAN PEACEMAKER TEAMS: For the love of the God you claim to follow, hire a public relations consultant.

Otherwise, the next freed hostage of yours might turn up and say what James Loney did, that: "After this, I'm going to disappear for a little while into a different kind of abyss -- an abyss of love."

An abyss of love. Loney, you silver-tongued devil, you.

A report out of Baghdad also indicated these self-involved, self-righteous morons declined to provide valuable intelligence about their kidnappers to the British, U.S. and Canadian soldiers who saved their lives!

See, members of Christian Peacemaker Teams are pacifists and they don't co-operate with men with guns who might use the information to track down kidnappers and/or terrorists and shoot them in the head until they agree to stop kidnapping and/or terrorizing people.

Pacifists don't believe in violence and refuse to use it or abet its use. Pacifists are therefore moral imbeciles.

They're like the guy at the party who won't kick in for the pizza but sneaks a slice when he thinks nobody's looking.

Pacifists are the same.

They're thieves who enjoy the protection offered by those they morally despise but aren't willing to get their hands dirty themselves.

They walk down our safe Canadian streets, enjoying that safety.

Never mind the only reason our streets are safe is because criminals are hunted down by men and women called "police officers."

Criminals don't co-operate with police and go meekly to the holding cells because criminals are nice people. They co-operate with police because if they don't, they'll get pepper-sprayed in the face or thumped with a baton or shot in the head, depending upon the degree of their non-co-operation.

We have a functioning government in this country even when the Liberals are in power --although it pains me greatly to admit it,

Taxes are paid and used to fund various projects which are, technically, for the good of all.

I personally would not volunteer to pay income taxes because I am a greedy libertarian.

I pay my taxes because if I don't, men with guns in the service of the state will come to my house and drag my sorry butt to the slammer for evading income taxes.

We live in a civilized society -- in which wimpy pacifist losers can walk around safely -- because we live under constant threat of socially sanctioned government violence.

It's the reason I don't speed (too much), rob banks, use heroin, enslave the weak so I never have to do my own laundry again, or hunt down the teachers who annoyed me in high school to cover them in Hershey's chocolate syrup and stake them out on the nearest red ant hill in the hot sun.

(Yeah. Right. Like you've never thought about what you'd do if Parliament accidentally repealed the Criminal Code for a day.)

Pacifists such as Loney have never accomplished anything in this world and never will, and they've certainly never created what they purport to love: Peace.

They believe violence never solves anything when, in fact, the judicious use of violence solves many of the large problems.

South Korea is free because men -- real men, not pacifists -- sacrificed to stop the North Koreans from enslaving it. Ditto for Nazi and Japanese aggression during the Second World War. Violence ended black slavery on this continent.

All of those achievements were won by men with guns, not the wimps on the sidelines praying and feeling smug about occupying the moral high ground.
"They're like the guy at the party who won't kick in for the pizza but sneaks a slice when he thinks nobody's looking..."

Beautiful.
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Old 04-02-06, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesus
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land.

Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
More empty ideas from another moral imbecile.
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Old 04-02-06, 10:05 AM
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Jesus carried a big stick. Oh, wrong metaphor...
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Old 04-02-06, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Jesus carried a big stick. Oh, wrong metaphor...
No right metaphor.


It seems that even the J-man wasn't above going medeival on someone's ass...

If you think 'War is not the answer' all the time, I really don't think that you even know the question.
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Old 04-02-06, 11:42 AM
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The problem with pacifists is that they refuse to recognize the moral distinction between the initiatiation of force and defensive force.

If they want to apply that lack of distinction to just their own lives they have every right to do so. If they want to apply it to the rest of us, screw 'em.

At least, fortunately, being pacifists, they can't use force to force us to be pacifists too.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:07 PM
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I like pacifists better than simple draft dodgers, especially those who start stupid, unnecessary wars.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
The problem with pacifists is that they refuse to recognize the moral distinction between the initiatiation of force and defensive force.
Are you acknowledging that the pacifists are right when it comes to Iraq then?
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Old 04-02-06, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
The problem with pacifists is that they refuse to recognize the moral distinction between the initiatiation of force and defensive force.
"Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt 5:39

I happen to agree with you that the use of force in defense of oneself or of others is not immoral. But it is certainly a workable moral framework to assert that even defensive force is immoral. To be honest, I'm not sure what the point of the article (or of bhk's posting it here). It smacks of someone who has no good argument to make, and so instead decides to insult and belittle the opposing view in the hopes that nobody will notice the hollowness of his own position.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
To be honest, I'm not sure what the point of the article (or of bhk's posting it here). It smacks of someone who has no good argument to make, and so instead decides to insult and belittle the opposing view in the hopes that nobody will notice the hollowness of his own position.
Are you referring to the OP, or this Ian Robinson fellow?
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Old 04-02-06, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Are you acknowledging that the pacifists are right when it comes to Iraq then?
I do not think the Iraq War was justified.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
But it is certainly a workable moral framework to assert that even defensive force is immoral.
On a personal level, yes. Applying it to others, no.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Are you referring to the OP, or this Ian Robinson fellow?
Both. I'm not sure what Ian Robinson hoped to accomplish with his article; it seems like a rant by a petulant, whiny, crybaby who is upset that not everyone shares his aggressive attitude. And I'm not sure why the OP embraced it to the point that he felt like sharing it with the rest of us and calling it "beautiful."

It's empty rhetoric, and it's not even good empty rhetoric.
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Old 04-02-06, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
On a personal level, yes. Applying it to others, no.
I'm not sure I see the distinction. They are not forcing anyone to be nonviolent (and wouldn't it be a paradox if they did). All they are doing is advocating that others adopt their philosophy, and expressing sadness that others took actions that they do not condone in the name of saving them. For some reason, this earns Mark Steyn's and the OP's contempt.
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Old 04-02-06, 01:16 PM
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Wow. That article (more of an opinion piece, I guess) is pretty ignorant and insulting. I sit on the wall about pacifism and have a hard time fully accepting it, even though it's a big part of my church. But to say "Pacifists such as Loney have never accomplished anything in this world and never will, and they've certainly never created what they purport to love: Peace. " is incorrect. I would say pacifism has had successes (Ghandi?). I'd say that when wars are avoided because of diplomacy, that's good and successful, and if the rash act of a few pacifists puts the idea of not fighting a needless war into the forefront of the media, that's a good thing too.

As for the comment that pacifists are like pizza stealers, I really think that people like Albert Schweitzer and Mother Theresa are more than that. My step-grandfather refused to participate as a soldier in WWII because of his Quaker beliefs, but he volunteered to have medical tests made on him instead.

While I'm sure there are "smug" pacifists, to say they are in general is ridiculous. This article, and its author, are specifically smug.
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Old 04-02-06, 01:38 PM
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The point of posting it here is that these so-called pacifist morons didn't stay here. They went to the war zone and caused problems for our soldiers. Then when they were rescued refused to give intelligence to our soldiers that might help them in the future. I don't think these idiots understand or know which side they are on.
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Old 04-02-06, 01:55 PM
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If they want to put their agenda in the forefront and are willing to sacrifice themselves if need be, that's their business. If they knew the price of being rescued would be loss of life (which they pointed out they were glad it didn't come to that) or having to give intelligence, maybe they would have rather not been rescued.

I think they're not on any side (kind of the point). They're on the side of let's not have a war at all, which to me seems a legitimate side to be on.
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Old 04-02-06, 01:57 PM
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Pacifists never achieved anything? I seem to remember Gandhi having a slight impact on world history.

All in all; a ranting article with no point. Say and mean what you want about Loney and his co-hostages, but they at least had the conviction to actually GO to Iraq. It also seem they have teams in other hotspots around the world. Now, I don't know what background this Ian Robinson-character has, but it would surprise me if he had visited anyplace more dangerous than the outskirts of Calgary.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:06 PM
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Pacifists never achieved anything? I seem to remember Gandhi having a slight impact on world history.
I respect Gandhi and all but he screwed up by allowing the partition. The only reason that pacifism worked then was that there were a few thousand Englishmen controlling 200 million Indians. If let's say they were the Japanese of WWII, there would be no way Gandhi would have succeeded.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
I respect Gandhi and all but he screwed up by allowing the partition. The only reason that pacifism worked then was that there were a few thousand Englishmen controlling 200 million Indians. If let's say they were the Japanese of WWII, there would be no way Gandhi would have succeeded.
If there hadn't been partition - what do you think would have occurred?
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Old 04-02-06, 02:15 PM
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A lot less killing. Gandhi should have convinced Nehru to let Zinna be the primeminister of India. Nehru would have had his chance later. Even when they left, the British couldn't resist the last bit of "divide and conquor" strategy that had done so much for them in India.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
A lot less killing. Gandhi should have convinced Nehru to let Zinna be the primeminister of India. Nehru would have had his chance later. Even when they left, the British couldn't resist the last bit of "divide and conquor" strategy that had done so much for them in India.
There would have been civil war.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
The only reason that pacifism worked then was that there were a few thousand Englishmen controlling 200 million Indians.
Maybe so, but nevertheless did work. So the statement in the article that "Pacifists have never accomplished anything in this world and never will" is false.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:23 PM
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There would have been civil war.
Not too sure about that, Hindus and Moslems have been living peacefully(for the most part when you consider the numbers) in India for a while.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:37 PM
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This thread is incomplete without this.
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Old 04-02-06, 02:41 PM
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War ended communism?
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