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Afghan on trial for Christianity

Old 03-20-06, 11:05 AM
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Afghan on trial for Christianity

I have to be honest. Shit like this makes me think these rat-hole countries aren't worth American lives. Maybe we should just let the region go down the drain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4823874.stm
Afghan on trial for Christianity

The trial judge holds the bible he says belonged to the accused
An Afghan man is being tried in a court in the capital, Kabul, for converting from Islam to Christianity.
Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could face the death sentence under Sharia law unless he recants.

He converted 16 years ago as an aid worker helping refugees in Pakistan. His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children.

It is thought to be Afghanistan's first such trial, reflecting tensions between conservative clerics and reformists.


Conservatives still dominate the Afghan judiciary four years after the Taleban were overthrown.

The BBC's Mike Donkin in Kabul says reformists, like the government under President Hamid Karzai, want a more liberal, secular legal system but under the present constitution it is hard for them to intervene.

'Tolerance'

Afghanistan's post-Taleban constitution is based on Sharia law, and prosecutors in the case says this means Abdul Rahman, whose trial began last Thursday, should be put to death.

We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him

Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah

When he was arrested last month he was found to be carrying a bible and charged with rejecting Islam which is punishable by death in Afghanistan.

Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah told the BBC that Mr Rahman, 41, would be asked to reconsider his conversion, which he made while working for a Christian aid group in Pakistan.

"We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance.
Editorial comment:
We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him," the judge told the BBC on Monday.

But if he refused to reconvert, then his mental state would be considered first before he was dealt with under Sharia law, the judge added.

He said he expected the case to take about two months to be heard.

Precedent

The Afghan Human Rights Commission has called for a better balance in the judiciary, with fewer judges advocating Sharia law and more judges with a wider legal background.

Several journalists have been prosecuted under blasphemy laws in post-Taleban Afghanistan.

The editor of a women's rights magazine was convicted of insulting Islam and sentenced to death last year - but was later released after an apology and heavy international pressure.

Mr Karzai's office says the president will not intervene in the case.

Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan.

But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:45 PM
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But, if we leave them alone, the deaths that occured on 9/11 will seem like a small blip compared to the coming massacars.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
But, if we leave them alone, the deaths that occured on 9/11 will seem like a small blip compared to the coming massacars.
That's pretty much it.

A void consisting of a desperate and hopeless population is always ripe for the taking and being used for nefarious purposes.
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Old 03-20-06, 12:54 PM
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Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

X and bhk, I'm curious to hear what you think has changed in Afghanistan that makes it less likely that the country will serve as a staging area for anti-American violence?
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Old 03-20-06, 12:59 PM
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X and bhk, I'm curious to hear what you think has changed in Afghanistan that makes it less likely that the country will serve as a staging area for anti-American violence?
We have troops there now, as well as a friendly government.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
I have to be honest. Shit like this makes me think these rat-hole countries aren't worth American lives. Maybe we should just let the region go down the drain.
I agree. It wasn't even worth it to help them against the Soviets.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
But, if we leave them alone, the deaths that occured on 9/11 will seem like a small blip compared to the coming massacars.
If they don't give us the perps, we nuke from orbit.

We will never make it a "nice place." The most we can hope for is to keep it from bothering us.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
I agree. It wasn't even worth it to help them against the Soviets.
It certainly was - as a large nail in the Soviet coffin.
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Old 03-20-06, 01:14 PM
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The Soviet Union didn't concern me.

The point is that we're pissing money and resources on these people which hardly benefits us. A billion dollars spent here and there is not going to magically transform culture. Let alone a subculture that supports terrorism.
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Old 03-20-06, 05:24 PM
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Just imagine if muslims try to pass or institute sharia laws in the west, such as Britain or the US.
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Old 03-21-06, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by X
A void consisting of a desperate and hopeless population is always ripe for the taking and being used for nefarious purposes.
Them's big words. Sounds like a Star Trek trailer.
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Old 03-21-06, 09:48 AM
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But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country.
will bush's base allow him to support Karzai if he doesn't intervene?
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Old 03-21-06, 10:15 AM
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what is the punishment for treason in the US?

i see some parallels, but maybe thats just me.
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Old 03-21-06, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nomaan
what is the punishment for treason in the US?

i see some parallels, but maybe thats just me.
i think it is just you.

treason is punishable by death in the U.S. but that hasn't happened for 50 years or so (i think). that is treason against the U.S., not God. Most Americans believe freedom of religion is a "natural" right.
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Old 03-21-06, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Venusian
i think it is just you.

treason is punishable by death in the U.S. but that hasn't happened for 50 years or so (i think). that is treason against the U.S., not God. Most Americans believe freedom of religion is a "natural" right.
It all comes down to breaking the law of the land.
If your actions break the law of the land, don't do those actions.
I'm sure he knew the consequences of his actions, and continued anyways.
The blame lands on him.

That said, I'm not sure if this law should be applied.
If the situation is reversed, and a christian converts to islam, and then faces this sort of punishment, it'll create all sort of commotion in the muslim world.
Maybe a live and let live attitude should be adopted.

Last edited by nomaan; 03-21-06 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 03-21-06, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nomaan
Maybe a live and let live attitude should be adopted.
You think?
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Old 03-21-06, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

X and bhk, I'm curious to hear what you think has changed in Afghanistan that makes it less likely that the country will serve as a staging area for anti-American violence?
10,000 US troops running around on the ground is a starter. It's a small enough force not to be in the face of the Afghans, but large enough to raid Al-Qaida and Taliban cells. Sure cells may exist, but the large scale training camps are gone as long as the military presence is there.
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Old 03-21-06, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bhk
We have troops there now, as well as a friendly government.
So if we have troops and a "friendly government" there, now, one that supposedly brought democracy, why the hell is this guy on trial for his life for converting to another religion???????
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Old 03-21-06, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow69
You think?
better than not thinking ...
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Old 03-22-06, 08:33 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060322/...istian_convert
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Old 03-22-06, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Trout
Just imagine if muslims try to pass or institute sharia laws in the west, such as Britain or the US.
It's already happening. Look how many European and US newspapers refused to print those (quite innocuous) Danish cartoons. Islamic taboos are rapidly becoming more respected than Christian/Jewish ones in the West. The very real threat of violence is a powerful silencer to voices of opposition--or even the voices of open debate. How many independant films criticizing Islam do you think are going to be coming out of Europe after what happened to Theo Van Gough? Not too many, I'd wager.

I have absolutely no problem when Muslims want to live in the West under Western cultural and legal rules. But when they're unhappy with those, and want to impose their own legal and cultural mores....and then many in the West say "we have to find some middle ground between Western values and Islamic values"....I say BS. Modern Western law says your free to convert to any religion you want. Sharia says if you convert from Islam, you face the death penalty. What's the middle ground---if you convert from Islam you'll only get 10 years in prison? We don't need a middle ground, we need to forcefully stand up for the liberal Western values our civilization has produced.

I'm not a complete isolationist, but I am increasingly leery of the prospect of our involvement in many of these countries. Any transformations of these cultures is going to take a LONG time, And although military force and elections MIGHT play a role in the very long term, I'm not expecting too many positive results from this strategy in the foreseeable future.

But I must concede Bush's point that 9/11 proved that just disenagaging and doing nothing over there isn't going to work, either. I do not know what the answer is.
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Old 03-22-06, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
I do not know what the answer is.
You do, but you don't want to look into that dark part of your soul and admit it.
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Old 03-22-06, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Trout
You do, but you don't want to look into that dark part of your soul and admit it.

That's not going to work with me, Sidious. I know where that path leads---getting my arms and legs chopped off, burning in lava, and no more sex with Natalie Portman.....
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Old 03-22-06, 06:58 PM
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That's not going to work with me, Sidious. I know where that path leads---getting my arms and legs chopped off, burning in lava, and no more sex with Natalie Portman.....
C'mon, use the spoiler code.
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Old 03-22-06, 08:38 PM
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OldDude,

That's exactly why we should only supply the weapons and have the idiots fight there own war. Occupying was a stupid idea. Still is. Always will be.
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