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US/India nuclear deal

Old 03-02-06, 03:07 PM
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US/India nuclear deal

I'm kind of surprised noone has brought this up yet...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302/...dia_outlook_dc
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. critics accused
President George W. Bush on Thursday of selling out weapons non-proliferation goals in order to close a landmark nuclear deal with New Delhi, hardening battle lines as the U.S. Congress prepares to debate its fate.
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Congress and the 44-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group must both approve the agreement, which would allow India, after three decades of pariah status, access to billions of dollars in U.S. and other foreign atomic technology and fuel to meet its soaring energy needs.

Although many U.S. lawmakers favor closer ties with the world's largest democracy, non-proliferation advocates said details that had so far emerged suggest Bush gave away too much in the nuclear agreement in an effort to ensure a successful summit with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi.

Democratic Rep. Edward Markey (news, bio, voting record) of Massachusetts said the accord "undermines the security not only of the United States, but of the rest of the world."

"With one simple move the president has blown a hole in the nuclear rules that the entire world has been playing by and broken his own word to assure that we will not ship nuclear technology to India without the proper safeguards," said Markey, co-chair of the bi-partisan task force on non-proliferation.

Daryl Kimball of the Arms Control Association faulted the White House for a "rush to meet artificial deadlines (that) sold out core non-proliferation values" in favor of a deal that would "implicitly endorse, if not indirectly assist, the further growth of India's nuclear arsenal."

Until Thursday's deal, Washington and New Delhi were divided on how India will separate its military and civilian nuclear plants, opening the latter to international inspections as a hedge against weapons proliferation.

Officials said India agreed to list 14 of its 22 reactors as civilian and open them to international inspection.

But experts said the fast-breeder reactors -- a major sticking point in negotiations -- appeared to be exempt, or at most inspections would be at India's discretion, and many more facilities -- research reactors, reprocessing facilities and spent fuel stockpiles -- also look to be excluded from safeguards.

"It's a sweetheart deal for India ... The administration told Congress the agreement would be about the growth of India's electricity and not the growth of Indian bomb making potential and that standard clearly has not been met," said Michael Krepon of the Henry L. Stimson Center.

Rep. Ed Royce (news, bio, voting record) of California, chairman of the House subcommittee on international terrorism and non-proliferation and a member of Bush's Republican party, said there is enthusiastic support in Congress for growing U.S.-India ties.

"However, the U.S.-India agreement on civil nuclear cooperation has implications beyond U.S.-India relations. In this process, the goal of curbing nuclear proliferation should be paramount. Congress will continue its careful consideration of this far-reaching agreement," Royce said.

Bush, at a news conference, acknowledged the agreement will be difficult to sell to Congress but was confident he could defend it as being in U.S. interests.

Ron Somers, president of the U.S.-India Business Council, which is leading a lobbying campaign on behalf of the nuclear agreement, said by telephone from New Delhi there is no question Congress supports deepening ties with India. But asked whether the deal can win legislative approval, he said "we must succeed. This is too important not to succeed."
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Old 03-02-06, 03:14 PM
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We we get to inspect their civilian nuke facilities, but not their military ones. I'm sure Iran would like a deal like that. I'm sure this was done for political reasons, I just don't see it helping if you're trying to put the nuclear genie back in the bottle (which isn't going to happen anyway).

Maybe we will need to make more nukes because in the future, we really will need to be able to blow up the whole world because the whole world is going to have them. Nuclear proliferation is a given at this point. There's no way to stop it.
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Old 03-02-06, 03:21 PM
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Does India get a chance to inspect our military nuclear weapons arsenal?

I have a much larger problem with Pakistan possessing nuclear weapons than I do with India.
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Old 03-02-06, 03:30 PM
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India already has nukes. Inspections will just tell us they have nukes. It's no longer proliferation, it's already there.

I have a problem with India and Pakistan having nukes. But you can't turn the clock back now. I think a deal with India is in the U.S.'s interest as well. Just jack up the price on plutonium a little.
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Old 03-02-06, 05:13 PM
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Inspections won't tell us anything about the Indian military nuclear program. The inspections are for the civilian reactors only. I don't have any problem with India have nukes. They are a democracy (the only stable on in the region) and more importantly have unfriendly countries right on their doorsteps (Pakistan and China). I DO however have a big problem with Pakistan having nukes. There are way too many 'variables' in the Pakistani government/military.
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Old 03-03-06, 05:52 AM
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Once again Bush nudges us a lil' closer to The New World Order.
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Old 03-03-06, 08:59 AM
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Another great idea by the Bush Administration. I think it's rather funny some people think they'd trust India with nukes. Oh well. I don't live there.
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Old 03-03-06, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Another great idea by the Bush Administration. I think it's rather funny some people think they'd trust India with nukes. Oh well. I don't live there.
I trust them a hell of a lot more than I do China & Pakistan.
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Old 03-03-06, 09:58 AM
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Is this another thread about foreign policy realism? I think it might be.

I know we're trying to cozy up to India, but do we really know that this nuclear fuel is not going to be used to make more weapons?
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Old 03-03-06, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by VinVega
Is this another thread about foreign policy realism? I think it might be.

I know we're trying to cozy up to India, but do we really know that this nuclear fuel is not going to be used to make more weapons?
I think that TPTB don't care what it will be used for. Their main concern is keeping the relationship going and securing access to offshored interests.
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Old 03-03-06, 10:23 AM
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Why is my mango glowing?
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Old 03-03-06, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Another great idea by the Bush Administration. I think it's rather funny some people think they'd trust India with nukes. Oh well. I don't live there.
I never got why people don't trust India to be a responsible nuclear power. What is it about India that makes people so afraid of them? It's a stable democracy; growing economic power, blah blah blah... moreover no history of terrorism, nuclear proliferation etc. And they built their nuclear program indigenously.
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Old 03-03-06, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bronkster
Why is my mango glowing?



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Old 03-03-06, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by huzefa
It's a stable democracy
It's funny. Everytime there's an election, you will hear a few got kill here and there.
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Old 03-03-06, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by huzefa
I never got why people don't trust India to be a responsible nuclear power. What is it about India that makes people so afraid of them? It's a stable democracy; growing economic power, blah blah blah... moreover no history of terrorism, nuclear proliferation etc. And they built their nuclear program indigenously.
I think most people have been worried about the conflict between India and Pakistan and the potential for a limited exchange there sparking a larger conflict.
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Old 03-03-06, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
It's funny. Everytime there's an election, you will hear a few got kill here and there.
Is that the threshold we should use? Within a developing country of over 1 billion people, with hundreds of political parties and thousands of candidates, they're doing a pretty good job.

As for the conflict with Pakistan, it is ongoing. Pakistani militants regularly cross the LOC and Kashmir is pretty much a warzone. Do you ever hear of any Indian militants crossing the Pakistani border? Moreover, I think India has been pretty restrained in its responses to Pakistani aggression. The US invaded Iraq on the theory that they have WMD. Meanwhile, India has on its doorstep a country that definitely has WMD and is definitely threatening to it. Why the double standard?

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Old 03-03-06, 02:19 PM
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Why the double standard?
So you are saying India should invade Pakistan?
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Old 03-03-06, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nemein
So you are saying India should invade Pakistan?
Is that too much of a stretch?
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Old 03-03-06, 03:53 PM
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To be honest I haven't thought about it much either way... I know it's always been a concern (the two countries facing off w/ each other) which is why I said people have been worried about a nuclear armed India (and Pakistan). What other factors may figure into the equation I don't know, that's really something for the two sides to decide, but I'll quickly add hopefully it's something that can be avoided. The last thing that area needs is another war and it would put the US (and other countries I'm sure) in a very tight spot wrt which side to "support".
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Old 03-03-06, 04:10 PM
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I don't want a war either, but the way I see it, the status quo can't continue. My feeling is that if 9/11 hadn't occurred and Musharraf hadn't become Bush's best friend, we would be talking about Pakistan in the same vein as we do about Iran right now.
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Old 03-03-06, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by huzefa
I don't want a war either, but the way I see it, the status quo can't continue. My feeling is that if 9/11 hadn't occurred and Musharraf hadn't become Bush's best friend, we would be talking about Pakistan in the same vein as we do about Iran right now.
Musharraf has been helpful in arresting Al-Qaida militants. As to whether he has done all he can, that's another question. If 9/11 hadn't happened, the concern over either country developing nukes would not be at the same level as it is today. I do think that there would be more concern for Iran developing nukes either way.

Pakistan is another one of those Muslim countries with a dictator ruling. But do we want the alternative, which is likely an Islamic Theocratic state either by popular election or by revolution? The lesser of two evils once again rears it's ugly head.
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Old 03-03-06, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by huzefa
I don't want a war either, but the way I see it, the status quo can't continue. My feeling is that if 9/11 hadn't occurred and Musharraf hadn't become Bush's best friend, we would be talking about Pakistan in the same vein as we do about Iran right now.
I can buy that.

Also to the earlier poster, India is extremely stable, and the world's largest Democracy. This is a developing nation in many senses, abject poverty by some, yet they're faring much better than many of their Muslim neighbors.
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Old 03-03-06, 05:53 PM
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Correction, largest and most corrupt democracy. How they manage to keep it running is truely amazing.
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Old 03-03-06, 06:38 PM
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Did India ever commit any troops to Iraq?
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Old 03-03-06, 06:46 PM
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Unless something changed... this was the first article I found http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3063465.stm
India rejects Iraq troop request
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