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Get ready for higher ciggy prices in CA

Old 12-14-05, 02:26 PM
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Get ready for higher ciggy prices in CA

ballot to raise ciggy tax = less smokers = less revenues = less money for research and prevention = another ballot to raise taxes = same people who voted for the ciggy tax ballot thinking it will only hurt smokers are now paying the price

Meanwhile, Indian reservations, and overseas will enjoy a tenfold profits. Thanks dumb Californians.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/.../cigarette_tax

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A coalition of health organizations wants to quadruple the tax on a pack of cigarettes in California to boost funding for a variety of health programs.

The per-pack tax would jump by $2.60 under an initiative the coalition hopes to place on the November 2006 ballot, supporters said Tuesday. If voters approve the proposal, California's total tax on a pack of cigarettes would rise to $3.47, the highest in the nation.

The initiative combines tobacco tax measures from the California Hospital Association and the American Cancer Society. The new campaign includes the American Lung Association of California, the American Heart Association and the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, among others.

Revenue from the higher tax would be directed to various health programs, including cancer screening, prevention and research, low-cost children's insurance, and tobacco education and cessation.

Because the extra per-pack tax would be expected to curb sales, the proposal allots $159 million a year to offset any loss of revenue to programs supported by an initiative approved by voters last year. That measure added a tax of 50 cents a pack to fund early childhood education.

The initiative also would give money to local law enforcement to enforce tobacco control laws, which critics said would be needed to offset an expected rise in black-market cigarettes.

Raising the tax by such a large amount might lead some people to quit smoking, said Craig Fishel, spokesman for North Carolina-based R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.

"But more likely what you have is people looking for other means to get their cigarettes, usually from other states or on Indian reservations where excise taxes aren't enforced," he said.

The increased revenue that the initiative's supporters are touting also would be short-lived, said Larry McCarthy, president of the California Taxpayers Association, an anti-tax group.

If people can't afford to smoke, they'll quit or buy illegal cigarettes, reducing the amount of taxes collected, he said.

The tax is projected to raise $2.7 billion annually if cigarette sales remain at the current level, but the higher price is expected to cut sales by about 8 percent a year, supporters said.
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Old 12-14-05, 02:35 PM
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The fools are going tax cigarettes so much that a black market is going to develop, which means increased crime and violence.
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Old 12-14-05, 02:37 PM
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That's great news for criminals working the night shift in San Francisco. Law abiding citizens have no guns. City official liberals running this city did hell of a job ensuring criminals' rights.
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Old 12-14-05, 02:39 PM
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Couldn't people just buy their cigs elsewhere? Like from on-line stores.
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Old 12-14-05, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Couldn't people just buy their cigs elsewhere? Like from on-line stores.

They'll probably go the Michigan route:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sales
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Old 12-14-05, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
Couldn't people just buy their cigs elsewhere? Like from on-line stores.
That's what I did when I smoked.

Didn't Visa and MC agree not to accept transactions from online cigarette retailers, though?
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Old 12-14-05, 02:52 PM
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If I was a smoker and lived in one of the states that had high cig taxes, I would just hook up someone who lived in the South and have them buy cigs there and ship it off to me.
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Old 12-14-05, 02:59 PM
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Yeah ... as always, the tax money is going to "help the children" ... just like that settlement that the states got from tobacco money right? They need to either ban it or leave it alone.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
They need to either ban it or leave it alone.

They can't help themselves. People rail on the greed of big business; these people ought to take a gander at what the states do.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
The fools are going tax cigarettes so much that a black market is going to develop, which means increased crime and violence.
Probably.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
They'll probably go the Michigan route:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....ighlight=sales
Like here in IL. My buddy here in Chicago received a bill for close to $2,000 for about 4 years of back taxes for buying cigs online. They even threw in interest Go to love those sin taxes
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Old 12-14-05, 03:12 PM
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$2,000? Oh my.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Flashback
Like here in IL. My buddy here in Chicago received a bill for close to $2,000 for about 4 years of back taxes for buying cigs online. They even threw in interest Go to love those sin taxes

That's the equivalent of the state kicking you in the nads.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:16 PM
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Set up your southern supplier and leave no paper trail at all.

btw: not me, I'm not taking my chances with those dea pigs.
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Old 12-14-05, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
The fools are going tax cigarettes so much that a black market is going to develop, which means increased crime and violence.
I can't tell if you're being humorous, or if you did indeed trip down that slippery slope there...
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Old 12-14-05, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Morf
I can't tell if you're being humorous, or if you did indeed trip down that slippery slope there...
I'm not being humorous.

Are you being humorous with your slippery slope comment?
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Old 12-14-05, 03:50 PM
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We protect the rights of the minority, unless they are disgusting smokers.
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Old 12-14-05, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
ballot to raise ciggy tax = less smokers = less revenues = less money for research and prevention = another ballot to raise taxes = same people who voted for the ciggy tax ballot thinking it will only hurt smokers are now paying the price

Meanwhile, Indian reservations, and overseas will enjoy a tenfold profits. Thanks dumb Californians.
GREAT, a preemptive attack on the voters of California before: 1). the proposition has been certified, 2). the pro/con groups spend millions to spread their message 3). voters vote, 4). court challenges if the proposition passes.

Maybe you remember Prop 10 which raised tobacco taxes by 50 cents in 1998? It passed 51% to 49% . We do not know if this proposition will pass or not.

Californian voters are dumb when they pass taxes on cigarettes so I guess it was dumb Californian voters who also passed Prop 13 (property tax reforms/limits), Prop 187 (denial of benefits to illegals), Prop 209 (anti-affirmative action), Prop 22 (definition of marriage), Prop 64 (tort reform). Maybe that is what happens when one legislates by initiatives.

Anyway, New Jersey has one of the highest tax rates on tobacco at $2.40 per pack while California is at 87 cents per pack In 1997, the smoking rate in NJ was 21.5%. In 2004, after a series of tax hikes on cigarettes, the smoking rate dropped to 19%

Perhaps, there is a baseline of hardcore smokers who will not stop until the costs are prohibitive.

The internet/indian reservation argument would be the same one if the sales taxes were raised and people still buy things in California as sales tax revenues are increasing. Anyway, I hope this makes it on the ballot and I hope it passes.
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Old 12-14-05, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chowderhead
GREAT, a preemptive attack on the voters of California before: 1). the proposition has been certified, 2). the pro/con groups spend millions to spread their message 3). voters vote, 4). court challenges if the proposition passes.

Maybe you remember Prop 10 which raised tobacco taxes by 50 cents in 1998? It passed 51% to 49% . We do not know if this proposition will pass or not.

Californian voters are dumb when they pass taxes on cigarettes so I guess it was dumb Californian voters who also passed Prop 13 (property tax reforms/limits), Prop 187 (denial of benefits to illegals), Prop 209 (anti-affirmative action), Prop 22 (definition of marriage), Prop 64 (tort reform). Maybe that is what happens when one legislates by initiatives.

Anyway, New Jersey has one of the highest tax rates on tobacco at $2.40 per pack while California is at 87 cents per pack In 1997, the smoking rate in NJ was 21.5%. In 2004, after a series of tax hikes on cigarettes, the smoking rate dropped to 19%

Perhaps, there is a baseline of hardcore smokers who will not stop until the costs are prohibitive.

The internet/indian reservation argument would be the same one if the sales taxes were raised and people still buy things in California as sales tax revenues are increasing. Anyway, I hope this makes it on the ballot and I hope it passes.
Why do you care if people smoke? I don't give a rat's ass if someone is fat and eats steaks and potatoes every night. Thats the point of insurance.

Cardiovascular disease is a major public health problem; it is the leading cause of death in New Jersey and nationally.
In 2001 more than 28,400 people in New Jersey and over 930,000 Americans died from cardiovascular disease.
Kind of makes lung cancer insignificant, no?

Do you also favor raising taxes on alcohol so people quit? $50 for a case of beer? Lets go ALL the way.

Last edited by CRM114; 12-14-05 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 12-14-05, 08:21 PM
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I've said before that it'd be interesting to see a soft drink tax.

Cavities are a big problem in this country.
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Old 12-14-05, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
ballot to raise ciggy tax = less smokers = less revenues = less money for research and prevention = another ballot to raise taxes = same people who voted for the ciggy tax ballot thinking it will only hurt smokers are now paying the price.
That is the way it works.

The state is trying to figure out how to tax hybrids and electric cars now since they don't pay enough gasoline tax. Instead of continuing to encourage a transition to them the main concern is maintaining tax revenues (much of which goes into the general fund, not just highways), so they're trying to figure out a way to tax miles driven. Cars may eventually have to have black boxes attached to them to determine how much tax you have to pay.
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Old 12-15-05, 06:10 AM
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Or if you live in a border city (like San Diego, say) you could just buy them in Mexico for a buck a pack.
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Old 12-15-05, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CRM114
Quote:
-------------------
Cardiovascular disease is a major public health problem; it is the leading cause of death in New Jersey and nationally.
In 2001 more than 28,400 people in New Jersey and over 930,000 Americans died from cardiovascular disease.
------------------
Kind of makes lung cancer insignificant, no?

Do you also favor raising taxes on alcohol so people quit? $50 for a case of beer? Lets go ALL the way.
Smoking is a MAJOR cause of cadiovascular disease as well as cancer.

In moderate doses, approx. 1 drink per day, a little alcohol is better for you than no alcohol at all. (Several drinks per day are NOT good for you)

Smoking is nothing but bad. One cig. is bad, two are worse.

One of these things is NOT like the other
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Old 12-15-05, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Smoking is a MAJOR cause of cadiovascular disease as well as cancer.

In moderate doses, approx. 1 drink per day, a little alcohol is better for you than no alcohol at all. (Several drinks per day are NOT good for you)

Smoking is nothing but bad. One cig. is bad, two are worse.

One of these things is NOT like the other
How many drinks does the average person have in a week? 2, 3?

What are the health effects of smoking 2-3 cigarettes per week?
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Old 12-15-05, 08:57 AM
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I dunno, let's ask both of the people in the US who only smoke 2-3 cigarettes per week how they are feeling.

Alcohol, in moderation, is actually beneficial according to several studies that have been posted on this forum in the past.

Sucking particulates into your lungs, even in moderation, is just bad for you, hence the reflexive coughing.

Back OT:

I'm all for heavy taxation of luxuries (like cigs, booze, first class tickets, Lamborghinis, etc), moderate taxation of everyday items, no tax for things like food or health care supplies, and the abolishment of income tax. I don't see a big problem with this move, but then, I don't smoke.

Last edited by AGuyNamedMike; 12-15-05 at 09:02 AM.
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