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NYC Transit Strike Possible on Friday

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NYC Transit Strike Possible on Friday

Old 12-22-05, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatikk
Not really. You break the law, you go to jail. Pretty clear in my eyes.
If I was on a jury for someone who was being tried for going on strike, I would use jury nullification to vote "not guilty."

They should be fired for what they did. But they should not be in jail.
Old 12-22-05, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by grundle
If I was on a jury for someone who was being tried for going on strike, I would use jury nullification to vote "not guilty."

They should be fired for what they did. But they should not be in jail.
Technically, they wouldn't be going to jail for striking. They would have gone to jail for contempt of court due to their violation of a court order... because they went on strike.

Wouldn't have been a jury trial anyways.
Old 12-22-05, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
One thing lost in all this pension talk...do you realize what kind of work ethic you must have to be 55 years old and NEVER promoted to a Supervisory or Managment position?
supervisors and managers are usually non-union though
the union jobs likely have better pay and benefits after 25 years than the manager jobs do
Old 12-22-05, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mikehunt
supervisors and managers are usually non-union though
the union jobs likely have better pay and benefits after 25 years than the manager jobs do
Supervisors in the MTA also colect overtime and MTA Supervisors and Managers have MUCH better benifits

For example... managers keep thier health insurance for life

Supervisorers are union...just not TWU

Last edited by Tommy Ceez; 12-22-05 at 08:22 PM.
Old 12-25-05, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
how many people pay zero for healthcare? how many people can retire at 50 with full salary?
al get your facts right, no one except management gets a full salary pension
Old 12-25-05, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
Supervisors in the MTA also colect overtime and MTA Supervisors and Managers have MUCH better benifits

For example... managers keep thier health insurance for life

Supervisorers are union...just not TWU
Believe it or not, the "line supervisors" are members of the TWU...but not local 100

Last edited by Bobou2; 12-25-05 at 03:36 AM.
Old 12-25-05, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobou2
al get your facts right, no one except management gets a full salary pension
how many people in the private sector can retire at 50 with half salary? I don't see a big deal with them retiring at 62 and paying a little for their health benefits
Old 12-25-05, 09:58 PM
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Everyone hates unions. They so lazy. They so overpayed. They so crazy.

Until the day comes they actually work for one. Then they see the light.
Old 12-27-05, 08:29 AM
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On track to clinch new deal

Transit pension plan would stay same

BY PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Transit union leaders will convene today and possibly accept a new contract - which would put an end to the labor strife that led to a three-day strike.
Sources said the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and Transport Workers Union Local 100 are close to a three-year pact that calls for raises of 3%, 4% and 4% for its 33,700 workers.

The framework of the deal would require all workers to contribute toward health insurance, but would not change the existing pension plan or retirement age, sources said.

While health care costs would rise, retirees would see improved health coverage, sources said.

The local's executive board has been told to report to its headquarters on West End Ave. today. It must approve any potential pact and call a ratification vote by members.

That framework, if nailed down, allows both sides to address some of their main concerns.

Union leader Roger Toussaint can say he held the line on pensions; he was vehemently opposed to raising the retirement age from 55 to 62, and fought raising pension contributions for new hires.

MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow can point to the workers' first-ever contribution to health premiums. Transit officials have said pension and health care costs are soaring, and that without workers paying for some of their costs, fares could rise.

Spokesmen for the MTA and TWU wouldn't discuss negotiations yesterday, citing a media blackout suggested last week by a panel of state mediators.

The pension issue was the biggest stumbling block to a deal. The union wanted to drop the retirement age from 55 to 50, while the MTA wanted it raised to 62 for new workers.

The agency also wanted new hires to fork over 3% of wages for retirement plans, up from 2% given by current workers.

That change would save the MTA relatively little money in the short term. Toussaint and other labor leaders saw it as an attempt to set a precedent so municipal unions could be pressured to accept similar concessions.

Transit workers also abhor the idea of an older retirement age because of the health risks, emotional and physical, that come with their jobs: inhaling bus fumes, working inches from the subway's electrified third rail in the subways, having people regularly jump onto the tracks to commit suicide and toiling every day in a terrorist target.

A new pension scheme for new hires also could split the union into two camps, union members feared.

The union initially sought three straight years of 8% raises, while the MTA at first offered a two-year pact amounting to a 5% wage increase, some of which was only guaranteed if sick time taken was reduced.

Bus drivers, the largest job title, have a starting salary of about $35,000 a year and a top salary, not including overtime, of about $50,000. Including scheduled overtime, the base pay rises to about $58,500.

Originally published on December 26, 2005
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-321151c.html

Pensions can always be changed by Albany
Old 12-27-05, 10:14 AM
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bus drivers earning $100,000 a year is not uncommon

personally i think the union members are really dumb. if they went for a 401k type plan they can still have the same level of benefits but it would lower their tax liability and increase their take home pay. And a small contribution to the medical plan would also lower tax liability. Put it together with HIMD and other deductions and you have more money in your pocket.
Old 12-27-05, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
bus drivers earning $100,000 a year is not uncommon

personally i think the union members are really dumb. if they went for a 401k type plan they can still have the same level of benefits but it would lower their tax liability and increase their take home pay. And a small contribution to the medical plan would also lower tax liability. Put it together with HIMD and other deductions and you have more money in your pocket.
Theres a 401 and 457 option in addition to the pension
Old 12-27-05, 11:02 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Everyone hates unions. They so lazy. They so overpayed. They so crazy.

Until the day comes they actually work for one. Then they see the light.
I worked for a union when I worked at a grocery store. There were several employees who should have been fired for vandalizing the back office, but they were kept on because the union fought for them. They were absolute zeros and stole from the store all the time. However, 25 cent raises every 6 months was pretty cool, as was time and a half on Sundays, I must admit. It has it's good points and bad points. I think the union was a bit out of control with some of their demands in this instance though.
Old 01-05-06, 12:46 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/05/ny...05kalikow.html

Pension Demand Was an Error, Chairman of M.T.A. Concedes

By SEWELL CHAN and STEVEN GREENHOUSE
Published: January 5, 2006

The chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said yesterday that he had erred in making pension changes a central demand in contract negotiations with the city's transit workers, a miscalculation that helped lead to a 60-hour subway and bus strike the week before Christmas.

The chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, did not take responsibility for provoking the strike, the city's first since 1980, but he acknowledged misjudging the union's hostility to his demands that future workers accept a higher retirement age or contribute more to their pensions than current workers do.

"I put out a proposal that I thought would be most palatable to the union, and it turns out I was wrong," he said in an interview. Before the strike, Roger Toussaint, the president of Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, had repeatedly said he would not accept a pension plan that did not treat future workers the same as current ones.

Mr. Kalikow, who was appointed by Gov. George E. Pataki in 2001, defended the settlement reached last week as fair. He said the union's main concession - having workers for the first time pay part of their health-insurance premiums - was more valuable than the pension demands that were ultimately abandoned.

"It didn't matter to me where I got the savings," he said.

After the settlement was announced on Dec. 27, a furor erupted over a contract provision that would give about 20,000 workers refunds of a portion of pension contributions they made between 1994 and 2001. The authority estimates that the typical worker will receive $8,400 and that the total cost will be $130 million.

The refunds require approval from Albany. In 2000 and 2001, Mr. Pataki vetoed bills that would have provided the refunds, saying that such refunds should first be agreed to in collective bargaining. Fearing that he might again veto the refunds, the union demanded a side agreement that would require the authority to pay union members $131.7 million even if officials in Albany blocked the refunds. The authority agreed.

On Sunday, Mr. Pataki said that he was "extremely unhappy" about the side agreement and had not been told about it. He argued that the refunds seemed to reward, rather than punish, the workers for engaging in an illegal strike.

Yesterday, Mr. Kalikow would not discuss what the authority had told Mr. Pataki and his staff members during negotiations, but he suggested that the provision and the side agreement could easily be misinterpreted.

"I think the deal itself is an excellent deal," he said, adding when pressed about the side agreement, "I don't like the way it was written."

The settlement needs to be ratified by a mail-in vote of 33,700 transit workers, but union officials said they might delay the vote until after the authority's board votes on the contract on Jan. 25.

"I don't think we're going to put it to the board until the union has ratified it," Mr. Kalikow said yesterday. He added that he was not sure whether to advise the board to approve the contract.

If either the board or the union's members reject the contract, negotiations could resume and another strike could be called.


Mr. Kalikow, 63, is a real estate investor and a former owner of The New York Post. He is expected to resign his unpaid position as chairman of the authority by the end of this year.

In the interview, Mr. Kalikow said he was "not happy about" the 37-month duration of the proposed contract, which would expire in January 2009, because the authority has projected sizable deficits starting next year.

"I really don't know what wages we can afford to pay in 2008," he said. "I'm not going to be there, but nevertheless I have a responsibility to leave my successors and the agency in good shape."

Mr. Kalikow said the settlement "makes a very good beginning" at addressing the rising costs of benefits. "Health care and pensions, to me, are two sides of the same coin," he said. "They're both of them running out of control, and I think we need to start making an effort to limit their growth."

He noted that pension problems affected public and private employers alike. "If General Motors can be almost toppled by this, then I think no one is immune," he said.

Randi Weingarten, the president of the United Federation of Teachers, who intervened as an informal mediator during the strike, said labor leaders had tried to convince Mr. Kalikow that Mr. Toussaint was adamant about not treating future workers differently.

"I'm very pleased that Kalikow sees that now," she said yesterday. "It would have been better for everyone if that had been seen beforehand."

On the eve of the strike, Mr. Kalikow personally substituted the demand for a higher retirement age with the demand for a higher contribution on pensions. The proposal failed.

Asked if he regretted his actions, Mr. Kalikow said: "God put eyes in front so we could look forward. He doesn't want us looking backward."
Old 01-05-06, 01:37 PM
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They don't deserve the pension refund at all. Hopefully the judge (due in January) will slam each worker with an additional penalty. Selfish pricks.
Old 01-09-06, 09:28 PM
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Old 01-09-06, 10:03 PM
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ok.
Old 01-20-06, 02:42 PM
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From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060120/..._transit_vote:
NYC Transit Workers Reject New Contract

NEW YORK - The city's 33,000 union transit workers narrowly rejected a proposed contract Friday, one month to the day after starting a crippling three-day strike that stranded 7 million bus and subway riders.
ADVERTISEMENT

The workers, by a seven-vote margin out of more than 22,000 votes cast, rejected union President Roger Toussaint's call for ratification and followed the lead of a dissident group urging rejection.

The voting ended at noon Friday, and Toussaint announced the unexpected result a few hours later.

The Dec. 20 strike, right in the middle of the holiday shopping season, shut down the nation's largest mass transit system for the first time since an 11-day strike in 1980, and left New Yorkers and tourists scrambling to find ways to get around the city.

State law bars walkouts by public employees, and the strike put the union and its members at financial risk.

Transport Workers Union Local 100 was fined $3 million, and striking workers were fined two days pay for each day on strike, though a Brooklyn judge has yet to determine exactly how much of those fines the union and its employees will pay. Toussaint could also face jail time for the walkout. A hearing scheduled Friday was postponed.

The rejected contract would have provided workers with raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent over the next three years. But it would have required them for the first time to contribute 1.5 percent of their salaries toward health care premiums.

The MTA agreed to pull a proposal that would have raised the retirement age for new hires from 55 or required new employees to contribute more to their pensions.

The deal was worked out in a late-night session with mediators after talks had broken down three hours after a midnight deadline.

------

I can't believe this!!!! The new contract was really way too good for them. Now let's hope that the MTA is going to trim that contract down, especially the pension payout.

Unbelievable.
Old 01-20-06, 02:49 PM
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You have got to be kidding me.
Old 01-20-06, 02:57 PM
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From this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/ny...rtner=homepage)

the vote was 11,227-11,234 against.
Old 01-20-06, 03:30 PM
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any dead people or kids vote?
Old 04-10-06, 08:42 PM
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there is justice after all

http://www.amny.com/news/local/trans...tion-headlines

Transit union president Roger Toussaint was slapped Monday with a surprise 10 days in jail and fined $1,000 for his role in leading the city-crippling transit strike in December.

He has 30 days to appeal the decision handed down Monday by Judge Theodore Jones in Brooklyn Supreme Court.

"I said in December this episode represents a sad day in New York City labor relations and I still believe that," Jones said. "I'm confounded by the tortured tale of these negotiations. It is unfortunate that it had to come down to an illegal strike."

Toussaint had pleaded guilty to the equivalent of contempt of court.

The union violated the state's Taylor Law, which forbids public employees from striking.

Toussaint, the only union member given jail time, said the issues in the contract dispute are part of the larger labor movement in the city. "At the end of the day we will deal with the fines and the sentencing as unfortunate as they are," Toussaint said outside the courthouse.

He said said would speak to his lawyers about the appeal.

"We didn't do this for the purpose of celebrity," he added, regarding questions about whether the jail sentence will make him a martyr.

Toussaint was given a jail sentence even though lawyers for the MTA and the state Attorney General said they wanted community service for the TWU officials in lieu of jail time.

MTA chairman Peter Kalikow said Jones' decision "reflects the gravity of the union's decision to knowingly and willfully violate the law."

In a statement, Toussaint said before the court: "We were engaged in civil disobedience, we did so because we had to. It is the (Transit) Authority that is the chief law breaker in the transit system."

Toussaint called the work stoppage a "defensive strike" to thwart the MTA's attempt to create a two-tiered pension system.

Terry Meginniss, a lawyer for Transport Workers Union Local 100, added that "jail sentences do not serve any kind of purpose but vengeance."

The judge will hear more arguments Wednesday regarding the $3 million in union fines and the automatic dues check-off for union members, Toussaint will be cross-examined tomorrow by MTA lawyers.

The union's secretery treasurer Ed Watt, the no. 2 TWU official, received a $500 fine. The No. 3 member, Darlene Lawson, also got a $500 fine.

There was one light moment during the hearing when attorney Neil Abramson, representing the MTA, asked Toussaint if he was familiar with the agency's accounting pratices.

"Two sets of books," Toussiant quipped, referring to revelations in 2003 that the MTA kept a public and private set of financial figures.
Old 04-10-06, 09:09 PM
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Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.
Old 04-10-06, 10:01 PM
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Latest word from the inside...

The union is re-sending out ballots for members to vote in a mad attempt to get a positive vote and beg the MTA to honor the last offer.
Old 04-11-06, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
Latest word from the inside...

The union is re-sending out ballots for members to vote in a mad attempt to get a positive vote and beg the MTA to honor the last offer.
I hope MTA rejects it! That will teach them.

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