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View Poll Results: Should the people who voted for parole be charged as accessories to murder?
Yes
10
25.00%
No
30
75.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

Paroled killer kills again.

Old 11-30-05, 10:53 AM
  #1  
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Paroled killer kills again.

Poll question: When a paroled killer kills again, should the people who vote for parole be charged as accessories to murder?

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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05327/611205.stm

Suspect in Loews shooting arrested in Monroeville

Charged in death of Wilkinsburg man after 50 Cent film

Wednesday, November 23, 2005

By Jonathan D. Silver, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The suspect in a fatal shooting this month at the Loews Cineplex at The Waterfront in West Homestead was apprehended yesterday morning at a Monroeville motel.

Larue Graves, 30, of Aliquippa was arrested about 11:05 a.m. without incident at the Days Inn on Mosside Boulevard where he was registered under a fake name.

Mr. Graves faces one count of criminal homicide and a gun charge in the Nov. 9 shooting death of Shelton L. Flowers, 30, of Wilkinsburg inside the theater just as a movie let out.

Allegheny County police and the county's fugitive task force caught up to Mr. Graves after receiving a tip that the suspect was in a Monroeville-area motel. A handgun was recovered.

Police announced Monday that they had obtained an arrest warrant for Mr. Graves, who is on parole after serving time in prison for voluntary manslaughter in the 1993 shooting death of a man in Oakland over gang colors.

Police received an anonymous call saying that the suspect in the shooting was Mr. Graves. Homicide detectives then showed a series of photographs to a witness who was in the theater when the shooting occurred and that person picked out Mr. Graves' photo as the person who shot Mr. Flowers.

Investigators said they still do not have a clear motive for Mr. Flowers' death, but said they thought the two men might have known each other.

Police said the theater shooting began when Mr. Flowers and Mr. Graves bumped into each other inside the men's room of the theater. They argued, then Mr. Flowers punched Mr. Graves, causing him to fall against a sink, and the fight spilled out into the main part of the building. Both men apparently drew guns and fired at each other, and Mr. Flowers was mortally wounded.

The shooting occurred just after a showing of the violent and controversial hip-hop movie "Get Rich or Die Tryin' " starring rapper 50 Cent.

Following the incident, West Homestead police ramped up security at the theater and Loews canceled further showings until the police investigation is completed.

It was unclear yesterday what impact, if any, Mr. Graves' arrest would have on whether the theater would bring the movie back. Police have said there is no known link between the shooting and the film.

Loews corporate spokesman John McCauley issued a statement after the arrest. "We are trying to move past this tragedy of a couple of weeks ago, and feel like we have made strides towards that end," McCauley said. "We had wonderful crowds that we had this past weekend for 'Harry Potter' and 'Walk the Line,' and we will continue to do our best to provide a friendly, safe and secure environment for our patrons."

Police Superintendent Charles Moffatt said yesterday that it was too early to tell whether anyone would be eligible for a $1,000 reward offered by Pittsburgh Crime Stoppers and $2,500 put up by Loews.

Mr. Graves was arrested in 1993 for killing an Oakland man. He was sentenced the following year to nine to 19 years in prison, but was paroled in June 2004 to a halfway house run by the state Department of Corrections on the North Side.

He spent a month there and was then released back into the community. He was to remain under the supervision of a parole officer into 2013.

In May 2003, the state Board of Probation and Parole turned down Mr. Graves' first parole request, citing a corrections department recommendation, reported misconduct in prison and a jailhouse conviction for aggravated assault.

By the next year, when Mr. Graves was paroled, the corrections department apparently changed its views because its recommendation was cited -- along with the recommendation of the trial judge and other factors -- in the parole board's April 2004 decision to release him.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:08 AM
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Definitely not.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:11 AM
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Definitely not. They're just doing their jobs as defined by law. I personally don't think parole should be an option for murder, but in state's where it is the parole board has to consider release, and it's a total crap shoot on knowing who will kill again and who won't.

The stupid war on drugs has made matters far worse by severly over crowding prisons and making parole more necessary.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have drugs decriminalized and treated as a disease, rather than put people in jail for victimless crime and have to let out violent individuals early to make room.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:13 AM
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I don't think they should be accountable, but I don't think that killers should ever walk...ever.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:14 AM
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Of course not. If we started doing that, might as well throw out the whole parole process because nobody would ever be paroled.

I'd like to hear from whoever voted "Yes."
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Old 11-30-05, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
Of course not. If we started doing that, might as well throw out the whole parole process because nobody would ever be paroled.

I'd like to hear from whoever voted "Yes."
As would I. 'Fess up and give your reasoning.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:28 AM
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No.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Definitely not. They're just doing their jobs as defined by law. I personally don't think parole should be an option for murder, but in state's where it is the parole board has to consider release, and it's a total crap shoot on knowing who will kill again and who won't.

The stupid war on drugs has made matters far worse by severly over crowding prisons and making parole more necessary.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have drugs decriminalized and treated as a disease, rather than put people in jail for victimless crime and have to let out violent individuals early to make room.
I was going to say something of the same effect. I'm so glad 56% of the people in our prison system are there on drug related charges. I feel so much more safe knowing that Jim down the street is no longer growing those evil cannabis plants. Intead he's spending the next 25 years of his life in a brick room! Sure, he was a respectable guy and now his children will grow up without a father, but he grew MARIJUANA people!!! A PLANT!!

Stories like this really make me upset about our justice system in this country.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:39 AM
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The OP is not serious is he?
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Old 11-30-05, 11:40 AM
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Wouldn't have happened if he was simply executed
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Old 11-30-05, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
The OP is not serious is he?
I imagine so, not much more absurd than many of the things he posts.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:49 AM
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of course not
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Old 11-30-05, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Wouldn't have happened if he was simply executed
Fair statement and it reminds me of an article I stumbled upon last week (an argument I've had for years):

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com..._20_05_DS.html

November 20, 2005
A Strong Argument for the Death Penalty
By Debra Saunders

Clarence Ray Allen provides the strongest argument I've seen for the death penalty. Allen is slated to be executed on Jan. 17. He ordered the death of several witnesses who had testified against him from prison while he was serving a sentence of life without parole for the murder of another witness. As a result, three innocent people are dead. They've been dead for 25 years.

"This is probably the paradigm of a death-penalty case, in which really no lesser punishment would be appropriate," noted state Deputy Attorney General Ward Campbell last week.

The ugly saga starts in 1974. Allen owned a security company. According to court documents, he enlisted the help of his own son Roger and two employees to rob Fran's Market, a store east of Fresno owned by the Schletewitz family, whom Allen had known for years.

Roger Allen invited the Schletewitz son, Bryon, to a party. While Bryon was swimming, someone took his keys. The Allen gang robbed the store. Later, Roger's 17-year-old girlfriend, Mary Sue Kitts, confessed to Bryon that she helped cash money orders stolen from the market.

Bryon confronted Roger Allen and also confirmed that Kitts had told him what happened.

Clarence Ray Allen then ordered that Kitts be murdered. Between threatening phone calls from Allen, an accomplice strangled the poor girl. When Bryon learned Kitts was missing, he went to authorities.

After a 1977 trial, a jury convicted Allen of burglary, conspiracy and first-degree murder. He was sentenced to life without parole.

In Folsom State Prison, Allen cooked up a scheme to kill the witnesses who testified against him so that he could appeal his conviction and then be freed because any witnesses were dead -- or scared silent. After Allen's buddy, Billy Ray Hamilton, was paroled, Allen's other son supplied Hamilton with guns and ammo.

Accompanied by a girlfriend, Hamilton visited Fran's Market, brandished a sawed-off shotgun and led Bryon and other employees into the stockroom as he searched for a safe. As the Fresno Bee reported, Hamilton shot Bryon to death.

He killed Douglas White, 18. Then he shot a crying Josephine Rocha, 17, through the heart, lung and stomach.

"When you hear the details, it's hard," Teresa Daniele, Rocha's big sister, told me over the phone. Some 25 years later, "it's still very raw." Hamilton also shot a 17-year-old clerk, who was left for dead but miraculously survived, and a neighbor who heard the shotgun blasts and went to investigate. After being shot, the neighbor then shot Hamilton.

Days later, a wounded Hamilton was arrested while robbing a liquor store. Police found a list of names and information for eight people who had testified against Allen, including Bryon Schletewitz and his father, Ray Schletewitz.

In 1982, a jury convicted Allen and sentenced him to Death Row. (A jury also sent Hamilton to Death Row.) The evidence had been overwhelming. As U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw wrote in a three-judge Ninth Circuit court decision that rejected Allen's appeal, the most damning evidence "came directly from Allen."

First, there was the list and the fact that Allen's son helped Hamilton. Then, there was the fact that Allen had been vocal in letting people know he would kill any "rat." As Wardlaw wrote: "By committing a capital crime while having already been maximally punished and while behind walls thought to protect society, Allen has proven that he is beyond redemption and that he will continue to pose a threat to society."

And: Allen "has shown himself more than capable of arranging murders from behind bars. If the death penalty is to serve any purpose at all, it is to prevent the very sort of murderous conduct for which Allen was convicted."

While Allen showed no mercy for his victims, the system has been quite kind to Allen. Three execution dates were set -- then stayed. In September, Allen had a heart attack, then angioplasty. With his execution looming, he may yet have open-heart surgery.

Now, his attorney, Michael Satris, is using Allen's old age -- which his victims failed to attain -- and poor health as a reason to put off the execution. I kid you not. Satris argued: "Allen's health is too fragile for the setting of an execution date at this time because of the risk that the setting of a date and the procedures that will attend such will cause him to have a heart attack."

Meanwhile, the families of his victims are dying off. Allen has outlived Josephine's father, Joseph Rocha, and Douglas White's brother, George. I'm told that the Kitt parents are dead. Bryon's mother, Fran, died in 2002. His father wanted to witness Allen's execution, but died in March. Bryon's sister is the only surviving member of the family. She wants to see justice done.

If Allen is executed as scheduled, the sister, Patricia Pendergrass, told me, "there finally will be truth in sentencing, even though so many years have passed." She thinks of the "very vicious, cruel death" forced upon Bryon and Josephine and Douglas, and sees Allen's execution as infinitely kinder.

If the state can't execute a man who has killed innocent people from prison while serving a life sentence without parole for murder, then no one is safe.

Except Clarence Ray Allen.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Definitely not. They're just doing their jobs as defined by law. I personally don't think parole should be an option for murder, but in state's where it is the parole board has to consider release, and it's a total crap shoot on knowing who will kill again and who won't.

The stupid war on drugs has made matters far worse by severly over crowding prisons and making parole more necessary.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have drugs decriminalized and treated as a disease, rather than put people in jail for victimless crime and have to let out violent individuals early to make room.
I find myself agreeing with Josh twice in one day!

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Old 11-30-05, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Wouldn't have happened if he was simply executed
Or if they were given life without parole.
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Old 11-30-05, 12:06 PM
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Hopefully someone will put a bullet in his head and permanently rehabilitate him.
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Old 11-30-05, 12:06 PM
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I thought a judge had the final say on the parole hearing's recommendation?
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Old 11-30-05, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
Of course not. If we started doing that, might as well throw out the whole parole process because nobody would ever be paroled.

I'd like to hear from whoever voted "Yes."
I voted "yes," precisely for the reason that you just said.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
The stupid war on drugs has made matters far worse by severly over crowding prisons and making parole more necessary.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have drugs decriminalized and treated as a disease, rather than put people in jail for victimless crime and have to let out violent individuals early to make room.
I think drugs should be legal.

But I would treat it as a personal behavioral choice, not as a disease.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:22 PM
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Instead of trying people who vote for the parole, why not "cut out the middleman" and ban paroling completely, if that's what you want to do.

If a jury acquits somebody, and they go on to commit murder, should that jury be tried as accessories?
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Old 11-30-05, 11:26 PM
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I really can't believe that seven people voted yes.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Wouldn't have happened if he was simply executed
I am against the death penalty.

However, you are correct.

I think that all murderers should get life in jail with no possibility of parole.

The people who voted to give this guy parole are evil scumbags. They deserve to be charged as accessories to murder.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:29 PM
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If you want to get rid of the parole system, that's one thing. I agree with you on that. But charging the parole board with accessory isn't the way to go about doing it
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Old 11-30-05, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
If a jury acquits somebody, and they go on to commit murder, should that jury be tried as accessories?
Ooooh, start a new thread.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
If a jury acquits somebody, and they go on to commit murder, should that jury be tried as accessories?
No.

But the people on the parole board are dealing with someone who has already been convicted of murder.

What is the purpose of giving parole to a convicted murderer?

Last edited by grundle; 11-30-05 at 11:35 PM.
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