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What is goign down in Paris? (riots?) [merged w/ Krauthammer thread]

Old 10-30-05, 12:16 AM
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What is goign down in Paris? (riots?)

<B>Second night of rioting in Paris</B>

Saturday, October 29, 2005; Posted: 7:43 a.m. EDT (11:43 GMT)

<B>PARIS, France (Reuters) -- Hundreds of French youths fought with police and set cars ablaze in a suburb of Paris early Saturday in a second night of rioting which media said was triggered when two teenagers died fleeing police.</B>

<B>The two teenagers were killed and a third seriously injured on Thursday night when they were electrocuted in an electricity sub station as they fled from police investigating a break-in,</B> media reported.

Firefighters intervened around 40 times on Friday night in the northeastern suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois where many of the 28,000 residents are immigrants, mainly from Africa, police and fire officers said.

<B>Unidentified youths fired a shot at police but no one was hurt, </B>police said.

<B>A police trade union called for help from the army to support police officers.</B>

"<B>There's a civil war underway</B> in Clichy-Sous-Bois at the moment," Michel Thooris, an official of police trade union Action Police CFTC, said .

"<B>We can no longer withstand this situation on our own. My colleagues neither have the equipment nor the practical or theoretical training for street fighting,</B>" he said.

Television pictures showed youths lobbing stones at police officers while cars burned on the streets of the suburb. Police in riot gear chased some youths down an alleyway.

Around 19 people were detained and 15 police officers and one journalist injured, police said. They were unable to give figures for the number of protesters hurt.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who announced a crackdown on urban violence this month, said the youths who climbed into the electricity sub station were not being chased by police. He said police were pursuing other youths after an attempted break-in.
Pursuit

On Thursday night, youths set cars and garbage cans ablaze and attacked shops and a fire station. Officials said 23 vehicles, including some post office delivery trucks, were set ablaze and destroyed in the protests.

A silent march in honor of the two dead teenagers was taking place on Saturday morning in Clichy-Sous-Bois, a suburb of high-rise social housing.

Sarkozy, whose law and order policies have been criticized by human rights groups, launched a new offensive against crime this month, ordering specially trained police to tackle 25 tough neighborhoods in cities across France.

Sarkozy, who has clearly stated his ambition to run for president in 2007, said police mobile units would patrol districts instead of having police waiting around in coaches while trouble erupted elsewhere.

The tough talking Sarkozy made his name by cutting headline crime figures during his first stint as interior minister from 2002 to 2004.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html

I'm not used to seeing this stuff outside the US. I'm suprised it's not a bigger headline, but there is a lot going on these days. I only saw it in the "world" section of their site. I guess punk teenagers aren't only in America.

And there wasn't even a soccer game involved!
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Old 10-30-05, 12:30 AM
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"immigrants from Africa" - the US isn't the only country with ghettos. How shocking (no pun intended).

Though how does one get electrocuted by electricity at a sub station? Were they actually climbing on those things?

http://www.lwsinc.com/eup_elam_sss.lasso
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Old 10-30-05, 12:33 AM
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They were probably tagging or something stupid like that. Graffiti is rampant in much of Europe. I guess I knew there were plenty of punk teens, I just haven't seen many confrontations like this with Police. This event seems to be on an enormously uncommon scale.
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Old 10-30-05, 12:36 AM
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Apparently a man in his 50's was beaten to death by these kids while taking photos of the local area.
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Old 10-30-05, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
"immigrants from Africa" - the US isn't the only country with ghettos. How shocking (no pun intended).

Though how does one get electrocuted by electricity at a sub station? Were they actually climbing on those things?

http://www.lwsinc.com/eup_elam_sss.lasso
Well, when you're an idiot, and you're running away from police, you can do some pretty amazing things that most law-abiding folk couldn't.

Claude Dilain, Socialist mayor of the suburb, called for an 'efficient, rapid and transparent investigation' into the deaths of the two teenagers. A relative of one of the dead youths, who were identified by local media as 15-year-old Banou and 17-year-old Ziad, said that the two were among nine boys were playing football and 'doing nothing wrong'. 'But one of them did not have an identity card, and so they were scared when they saw the police and ran,' she said.

Yeah, those mean policemen. Doing their job and such. What the hell are they thinking? Why can't they riot and loot businesses like New Orleans PD?

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-30-05 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 10-30-05, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
I'm not used to seeing this stuff outside the US. I'm suprised it's not a bigger headline, but there is a lot going on these days. I only saw it in the "world" section of their site. I guess punk teenagers aren't only in America.
Youth aggression is a huge issue in Britain.
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Old 10-30-05, 09:54 AM
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There was an article in THE ATLANTIC about the conditions in the Paris Muslim suburbs (actually less like suburbs, but large projects walled off like prisons)

I CANNOT find it on thier site, IF ANYONE CAN FIND THIS PLEASE POST A LINK!

It would shed some serious light on this situation.
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Old 10-30-05, 10:03 AM
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one time in the army i worked with a french chick. she said these things are called manifestations. People are usually quiet there, but sometimes they get pissed off at something and a manifestation happens.
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Old 10-31-05, 03:49 PM
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This has been going on for 4 nights now. The police chasing bad guys, yeah that's terrible - no wonder they are rioting. This world is stuck on stupid.
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Old 10-31-05, 07:31 PM
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I'm surprised we haven't heard jokes about the French Army being called in.
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Old 10-31-05, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I'm surprised we haven't heard jokes about the French Army being called in.
He's in the hospital recovering from a paper cut.
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Old 11-01-05, 12:07 AM
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I hope the white flag producing factory is not burn down.
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Old 11-01-05, 05:28 AM
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<i>Mod note: Everyone had their fun now? Please keep the posts relevant and cease the French bashing. Thanks</i>
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Old 11-01-05, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by nemein
<i>Mod note: Everyone had their fun now? Please keep the posts relevant and cease the French bashing. Thanks</i>








If you fell from the cops and die, I have no sympathy for you, NONE
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Old 11-01-05, 01:18 PM
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Even the Brits think the French deserves it.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/1....wyrascbk.html

Eighty-six percent of people in Britain aged 18 to 30 think the French deserve "a popular negative stereotype," suggests an opinion poll conducted for an Anglo-French art show in London.

That compares to 27 percent of like-aged people in France who felt the British held a negative stereotype of their nation, according to the survey.

The informal poll of 500 people in London, and as many in Paris, was commissioned by the organisers of an Entente Cordiale art show that opened in west London over the weekend. No margin of error was disclosed.

"British people should face up to the fact that they have an enormous problem when it comes to the French," said exhibition organiser Richard Kaye, a Brition resident in France.

"The British will make jokes about the French which would, if made to the detriment of other national or ethnic groups, be considered extremely racist and dangerous."
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Old 11-01-05, 02:02 PM
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I owe most of my French impressions to Monty Python, so that comes as no surprise.
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Old 11-02-05, 02:40 PM
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I hate to see the French goes to war.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/....1102paris.php
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Old 11-02-05, 07:08 PM
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Is it still going on? I was wondering since this area is mostly Muslim, can't the French government say they will recognize Iran's laws and punish those arrested accordingly. I would imagine the rioting would stop in a few minutes. Hands and feet are still precious.
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Old 11-03-05, 12:46 AM
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Q: How soon until an all out war in France?
A: With 12% unemployment rate, it's not too far-fetched.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4395294.stm

Riots erupt in more Paris suburbs

Rioting has spread to more suburbs of Paris on a sixth night of unrest in the north-east of the French capital.
At Aulnay-sous-Bois, at least 15 cars were torched as youths hurled stones and firebombs. Police fired rubber bullets and arrested 34 people.

Although the initial flashpoint of Clichy-sous-Bois stayed calm, trouble spread across much of north-east Paris.

Unrest has flared since two north African boys died. Local people say they had been fleeing the police.

French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy have delayed trips abroad to try to calm the situation.

Both met relatives of victims, police officials and community leaders on Tuesday in an effort to calm tensions. But fresh violence broke out even as the pair opened talks.

War of words

As many as 69 cars were reportedly set on fire in nine towns in the Seine-Saint-Denis region, home to many impoverished communities.

Correspondents say anger grew after a tear gas canister was hurled into a mosque in Clichy on Sunday night. Anger has also been fuelled by the mass arrests.

Mr Sarkozy, criticised for his description of the rioters as a "rabble", has repeated his condemnation.

"I speak with real words," Mr Sarkozy, who has cancelled a visit to Afghanistan and Pakistan next week, told Le Parisien newspaper.

"When you fire real bullets at police, you're not a 'youth,' you're a thug."

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who has called for calm, has delayed a trip to Canada to try to ease tensions.

The pair have been accused of playing politics with the situation in an effort to win favour ahead of a presidential campaign in 2007.

On Tuesday, the opposition Socialist Party accused Mr Sarkozy of tarnishing the image of France with his comments.

Cars torched

Unrest flared in Clichy after two teenage boys were electrocuted on Thursday at an electricity sub-station.

Local people insist they were fleeing from police and scrambled in to hide. Police say they were not chasing the boys.

An official investigation is under way.

Clichy saw five successive nights of confrontation between police and young people from the mainly north African Muslim communities in the north-eastern suburb.

Unemployment and social problems are rife in many of France's poorer suburban areas.

Police have reported sporadic incidents involving mobile groups of youths in the Val-d'Oise, Seine-et-Marne, Hauts-de-Seine and Yvelines regions of Paris.

Four people were arrested for throwing stones at police in Bondy, where 14 cars were burned, the Associated Press quoted officials as saying.
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Old 11-03-05, 04:25 AM
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If you're going to have a lot of poor people....make sure you pass laws so the police can carry lethal weapons.
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Old 11-03-05, 01:05 PM
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Appeasement has a price on it.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/03/D8DL3TG80.html

Rioting youths shot at police and firefighters Thursday after burning car dealerships and public buses and hurling rocks at commuter trains. France's government faced growing pressure to curb the violence, fueled by anger over poor conditions in suburban Paris housing projects.

Rampaging for an eighth day, youths ignored an appeal for calm from French President Jacques Chirac, whose government worked feverishly to fend off a political crisis amid criticism that it has ignored problems in suburbs heavily populated by first- and second-generation North African and Muslim immigrants.



Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin called a string of emergency meetings with Cabinet ministers throughout the day. He told the Senate the government "will not give in" to violence in the troubled suburbs.

"Order and justice will be the final word in our country," Villepin said. "The return to calm and the restoration of public order are the priority _ our absolute priority."

The riots started last Thursday after the electrocution deaths of two teenagers hiding in a power station from police they believed were chasing them in the northeastern suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois.

By Wednesday night, violence had spread to at least 20 Paris-region towns, said Jean-Francois Cordet, the top government official for the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris where the violence has been concentrated. He said youths in the region fired four shots at riot police and firefighters but caused no injuries.

Nine people were injured in Seine-Saint-Denis and 315 cars burned across the Paris area, officials said. In the tough northeastern suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois, youth gangs set fire to a Renault car dealership and burned at least a dozen cars, a supermarket and a local gymnasium.

Traffic was halted Thursday morning on a suburban commuter line linking Paris to Charles de Gaulle airport after stone-throwing rioters attacked two trains overnight at the Le Blanc-Mesnil station. They forced a conductor from one train and broke windows, the SNCF rail authority said. A passenger was lightly injured by broken glass.

The unrest has highlighted the division between France's big cities and their poor suburbs, with frustration simmering in the housing projects in areas marked by high unemployment, crime and poverty.

The violence also cast doubt on the success of France's model of seeking to integrate its large immigrant community _ its Muslim population, at an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest _ by playing down differences between ethnic groups. Rather than feeling embraced as full and equal citizens, immigrants and their French-born children complain of police harassment and of being refused jobs, housing and opportunities.

Opposition groups accused the government of letting the situation spiral out of control, either by failing to act quickly enough or letting in too many immigrants over the years.

"We see that the situation in certain neighborhoods is not getting better at all but degenerating," Socialist Party President Jean-Marc Ayrault told LCI television, who said Chirac's conservatives "did not know how to take control."

Right-wing French lawmaker Philippe de Villiers, who has said he wants to "stop the Islamization of France," told RTL radio that the problem stemmed from the "failure of a policy of massive and uncontrolled immigration."

Minister of Social Cohesion Jean-Louis Borloo said the government had to react "firmly" but added that France must also acknowledge its failure to have dealt with anger simmering in poor suburbs for decades.

"We cannot hide the truth: that for 30 years we have not done enough," he told France-2 television.
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Old 11-03-05, 01:15 PM
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I'm personally against France taking actions against these people that are rioting without at LEAST going through 17 years of inspections first. Warmongers.
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Old 11-03-05, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
Appeasement has a price on it.
I don't see what stuffing arabs in guettos for 30 years and ignoring problems has to do with appeasement.
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Old 11-03-05, 01:36 PM
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All these meetings about the riots, how they need to restore order, and they've been going on for what, a week now? Yeah, let's have more meetings. Oui! Oui!
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Old 11-03-05, 01:39 PM
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Rioting is historically, one of the favorite pastime of the French. Ever heard of May 68?
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