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Does Texas Ballot Prop 2 mean that no marriage would be recognized?

Old 10-25-05, 04:38 PM
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Does Texas Ballot Prop 2 mean that no marriage would be recognized?

Here is the text:

• Proposition 2: House Joint Resolution 6 would provide that marriage in Texas is solely the union of a man and woman, and that the state and its political subdivisionscould not create or recognize any legal status identical to or similar to marriage, including such legal status relationships created outside of Texas.

Nice drafting job, Rep. Warren Chisum.
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Old 10-25-05, 04:46 PM
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Poorly crafted.
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Old 10-25-05, 08:05 PM
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lawyers
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Old 10-25-05, 08:07 PM
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"I do" could become "by golly, we didn't" for more than 4 million married couples in Texas if voters approve a clumsily worded proposed constitutional amendment, opponents said Monday.

But it's not so, replied a Dallas-area lawyer who helped write Proposition 2, which would ban same-sex marriages and will appear on the Nov. 8 ballot.

Kelly Shackelford said: "You'd have to go through a lobotomy" to reach that conclusion.

Two other lawyers said the words at issue could be read to outlaw marriage but courts probably won't kiss that bride.

The first sentence of an intended ban on same-sex marriage, drafted by state lawmakers last spring, defines marriage as between a man and a woman.

The second sentence states: "This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage."

And not recognizing anything "identical" to marriage could mean not recognizing marriage, said Glen Maxey, who heads No Nonsense in November, an Austin-based group battling the amendment.

Automated calls raising the charge are being made to nearly 2 million Texas households, Maxey said.

Save Texas Marriage, an anti-amendment group represented at a Wooldridge Square park news conference by several male-female spouses, said drafters imperiled every marriage, an error that could have been avoided by barring governments from recognizing any legal status "other than" marriage.

This "could lead to the ruin of my marriage and every other marriage," said Trampes Crow, 31, an Army captain and student at the University of Texas Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs.

"We can't risk it," said Jimmie Sue Francis, an Austin mother and wife.

Two lawyers understood the quibble but doubted that courts would agree.

David Richards, former chief of litigation in the state attorney general's office, called the sentence's wording "crazy. The language is so ludicrous that I can see courts just in exasperation saying, 'If you don't learn to write a statute or a constitutional amendment with more clarity than that, don't look for us to bail you out.' "

But if the amendment wins overwhelming approval, as Richards expects, "then the ultimate judicial response will be not to fly in the face of the public's expression of their will," he said.

Ken Upton, senior staff attorney in the Dallas regional office of Lambda Legal, which advocates for gay rights, said he wouldn't personally go to court saying the language invalidates every marriage.

"I can't imagine what judge would have the intestinal fortitude" to do so, Upton said.

At least eight states have worded constitutional marriage amendments to apply solely to banning same-sex couples from marrying, according to amendment opponents.

Last spring, sponsoring Rep. Warren Chisum, R-Pampa, cleared his wording through the advisory Texas Legislative Council, which routinely drafts legislation. He didn't pencil in "other" because concerns about the wording affecting heterosexual marriage did not come up.

Shackelford, the Dallas-area lawyer , said proponents were focused on preventing pairings such as domestic partnerships.

Chisum on Monday offered his marriage for any post- election court tussle: "I don't think I passed a law that made us not married after 48 years. That's the dumbest thing."

In the automated telephone calls that began Monday, the Rev. Tom Heger, a former Austin pastor leading San Antonio's Beacon Hill Presbyterian Church, says in part: "A greedy insurance company, tricky divorce lawyer or a liberal Austin activist judge can easily use these words to overturn traditional marriage and cause people to lose health insurance, tax breaks and pensions."

Shackelford called the sally an "attempt to confuse and to scare people. Nobody's going to buy it."




This is from the local Austin Paper.
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Old 10-25-05, 09:16 PM
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I think it would be hilarious if they accidently outlawed traditional marriage in their mad rush to discriminate against homosexuals.
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Old 10-25-05, 10:29 PM
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Old 10-25-05, 10:29 PM
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As long as allowing horses poke me in the butt, and screwing sexy cows is still legal, I'm all for it!
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Old 10-25-05, 10:37 PM
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Don't these bills have committees to pass through?
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Old 10-25-05, 11:13 PM
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Red Dog had to go through a lobotomy


I knew it.
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Old 10-26-05, 12:05 PM
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Wow, in a roundabout way, gay marriage really CAN destroy traditional marriage.
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Old 10-26-05, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason
I think it would be hilarious if they accidently outlawed traditional marriage in their mad rush to discriminate against homosexuals.

That makes this amendment worth voting for.
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Old 10-26-05, 12:14 PM
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"I moved to Texas and all I got was this politically-motivated annulment."

Why don't they just pass an amendment that says "NO F*GS!", since that's what they really mean. Dumbasses.
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Old 10-26-05, 12:17 PM
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Texas didn't join the union like other states.

Texans tend to do things a little differently than other folks.
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