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Armitage admits he was Novak's source

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Armitage admits he was Novak's source

Old 07-12-05, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by X

Hint: it's big

Another hint... it's already been linked to in this thread.
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Old 07-12-05, 09:43 PM
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if you have the time to sit through 521 pages, by all means

http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf
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Old 07-12-05, 11:04 PM
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Wilson's main accusation against the administration centered on the "16 words" used in Bush's SotU speech in 2003. Here's factcheck.org's take on the issue, which relies on the Senate Intel report and the British "Butler Report".
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Old 07-12-05, 11:47 PM
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What is really sad is that if a Dem had done what Karl is alleged to have done I would be all up for prosecuting him. However Bush supporters ignore all the morals they claim to support when it would bring one of their own down. Itís not a dem/rep thing itís a right/wrong thing. While who ever leaked the name might not be legally accountable they should be morally accountable.

Someone released the name of a covert agent (fact). That someone did it knowing she was a covert agent (fact). I think that someone should be held accountable, republican or democrat. Republicans see it blindly as an attack against them, even though they know that the leaker was morally wrong in leaking the name.
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Old 07-13-05, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cinten
That someone did it knowing she was a covert agent (fact).
Could you substantiate that fact?
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Old 07-13-05, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cinten
What is really sad is that if a Dem had done what Karl is alleged to have done I would be all up for prosecuting him.
Well, so would the republicans. You're in agreement.
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Old 07-13-05, 12:29 AM
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For what it's worth, I'm a republican and I couldn't care less what happens to Karl Rove. It should be investigated and if guilty he should be punished as anyone would. It's still not clear the extent to which he is "the source" of this leak.
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Old 07-13-05, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cinten
Someone released the name of a covert agent (fact). That someone did it knowing she was a covert agent (fact).
Unless you have way better information about this than I do (which I doubt) those two "facts" are not at all known facts.
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Old 07-13-05, 09:20 AM
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Does anybody think The Nation will take back their award from Mr. Wilson?
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Old 07-13-05, 09:30 AM
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What I want to know, if all this is "fact" how come Judy Miller is still comfortably in jail?
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Old 07-13-05, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
What I want to know, if all this is "fact" how come Judy Miller is still comfortably in jail?
Because she didn't cut a deal like Novak?
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Old 07-13-05, 09:34 AM
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If the source is "known" why not come clean now?
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Old 07-13-05, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
If the source is "known" why not come clean now?
Spite. We liberals like spite. You know that.
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Old 07-13-05, 09:40 AM
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Spite of who?

Forgive me for not knowing who Judith Miller is before this, but does she normally write from a conservative or liberal slant?
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Old 07-13-05, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
If the source is "known" why not come clean now?
Either 1) Miller and Cooper had different sources and Miller's source hasn't authorized her to talk, 2) Rove authorized Cooper to talk but not Miller, or 3) Milloer has been authorized to talk but she thinks she's protecting some sort of principle by not talking.
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Old 07-13-05, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
Spite of who?

Forgive me for not knowing who Judith Miller is before this, but does she normally write from a conservative or liberal slant?
She's a news reporter for the New York Times. She covered the run-up to the Iraq war for them and has been roundly criticized by the left for not questioning any of the administration's statements on Iraq, WMD, etc.
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Old 07-13-05, 09:44 AM
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2 doesn't make sense.

What I do know is she works for the NY Times, right? *cough cough*

My guess is #1 (different source), and therefore #3.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
2 doesn't make sense.



My guess is #1 (different source), and therefore #3.

I agree. I don't believe Rove is her source.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:29 AM
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Novak has stated he had 2 independent sources for his article.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:36 AM
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Anyone getting the feeling the other shoe is about to drop? Release Rove's name, get everyone into a feeding frenzy over the whether or not something wrong was done and then the name of someone who is more/unambigously culpable is released. Maybe not but stranger things have certainly happened in DC.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:42 AM
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From today's WSJ:
Karl Rove, Whistleblower

920 words
13 July 2005
The Wall Street Journal
A14
English
(Copyright (c) 2005, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.)

Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize -- perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.

For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.

Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. To be prosecuted under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, Mr. Rove would had to have deliberately and maliciously exposed Ms. Plame knowing that she was an undercover agent and using information he'd obtained in an official capacity. But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.

On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail.

"While an investigation of the leak was justified, it is far from clear -- at least on the public record -- that a crime took place," the Post noted the other day. Granted the media have come a bit late to this understanding, and then only to protect their own, but the logic of their argument is that Mr. Rove did nothing wrong either.

The same can't be said for Mr. Wilson, who first "outed" himself as a CIA consultant in a melodramatic New York Times op-ed in July 2003. At the time he claimed to have thoroughly debunked the Iraq-Niger yellowcake uranium connection that President Bush had mentioned in his now famous "16 words" on the subject in that year's State of the Union address.

Mr. Wilson also vehemently denied it when columnist Robert Novak first reported that his wife had played a role in selecting him for the Niger mission. He promptly signed up as adviser to the Kerry campaign and was feted almost everywhere in the media, including repeat appearances on NBC's "Meet the Press" and a photo spread (with Valerie) in Vanity Fair.

But his day in the political sun was short-lived. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report last July cited the note that Ms. Plame had sent recommending her husband for the Niger mission. "Interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD [Counterproliferation Division] employee, suggested his name for the trip," said the report.

The same bipartisan report also pointed out that the forged documents Mr. Wilson claimed to have discredited hadn't even entered intelligence channels until eight months after his trip. And it said the CIA interpreted the information he provided in his debrief as mildly supportive of the suspicion that Iraq had been seeking uranium in Niger.

About the same time, another inquiry headed by Britain's Lord Butler delivered its own verdict on the 16 words: "We conclude also that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that `The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa' was well-founded."

In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.

If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe. The Bush Administration is also guilty on this count, since it went along with the appointment of prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald in an election year in order to punt the issue down the road. But now Mr. Fitzgerald has become an unguided missile, holding reporters in contempt for not disclosing their sources even as it becomes clearer all the time that no underlying crime was at issue.

As for the press corps, rather than calling for Mr. Rove to be fired, they ought to be grateful to him for telling the truth.
I don't necessarily agree and I think Rove should probably be axed for this, but the initial question in this thread (should he go to jail) indicates to me that some people are ready to convict regardless of the facts.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Either 1) Miller and Cooper had different sources and Miller's source hasn't authorized her to talk, 2) Rove authorized Cooper to talk but not Miller, or 3) Milloer has been authorized to talk but she thinks she's protecting some sort of principle by not talking.
I'd say #3. Its a pretty substantial "principle" if you ask me.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:52 AM
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I think we should all agree that both Wilson and Rove are scumbags and let that be the end of it.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
I think we should all agree that all politicians are scumbags and let that be the end of it.
Edit: FIXED.

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Last edited by nemein; 07-13-05 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11
Edit: FIXED.
While I should report this post to a moderator, I find I must agree.
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