DVD Talk Forum

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   Religion, Politics and World Events (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events-47/)
-   -   Challenge of Election in US House of Representatives [merged w/ Ohio thread] (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-politics-world-events/403876-challenge-election-us-house-representatives-%5Bmerged-w-ohio-thread%5D.html)

wendersfan 12-07-04 08:18 AM

Well, thank heavens for that. Now I can finally get a good night's sleep.

nevermind 12-07-04 08:46 AM


Originally Posted by wendersfan
Well, thank heavens for that. Now I can finally get a good night's sleep.


Dan Rather can't :(

X 12-07-04 11:21 AM

It's not over yet. There will be a recount.

Myster X 12-10-04 03:07 PM

When will the media and Democrats let this go.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...oting_problems

Cleveland Paper Cites Voter Problems

CLEVELAND - A polling place that served two adjoining precincts counted hundreds of votes for fringe presidential candidates Nov. 2, apparently because poll workers didn't instruct voters to use only the machines for their precinct, a newspaper reported Friday.


The Cleveland Plain Dealer's review of voting patterns in Cuyahoga County showed that many of the approximately 1,000 voters in the two precincts cast ballots just steps away at machines meant for the other precinct.


"There was no distinction between precincts," said Katie Daley, an observer for the Democratic Party who spent Election Day at the voting place, Benedictine High School. "Voters were being told to go to any machine that was open."


The newspaper reported the problems arose because candidate names were in different positions on the ballot in different precincts. A person's punch-card ballot would be misread if he voted in the wrong precinct and the card was then read on his or her home precinct's machine.


Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) lost Ohio to President Bush (news - web sites) by about 119,000 votes out of 5.6 million cast. Voting procedures have been under scrutiny because the closely fought state put President Bush over the top in November.


At the two precincts located at Benedictine, both heavily Democratic, Libertarian Michael Badnarik received 164 votes, almost half as many as Kerry, who got 334. In the adjacent precinct, Constitution Party candidate Michael Peroutka received 215 votes to Kerry's 299.


Because most of the problems occurred in heavily Democratic precincts, the errors seem to have cost votes for Kerry, the newspaper reported.


Michael Vu, Cuyahoga County's election director, said the findings would be investigated, and said they showed the need for more poll worker training.

mosquitobite 12-10-04 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by Myster X
Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) lost Ohio to President Bush (news - web sites) by about 119,000 votes out of 5.6 million cast. Voting procedures have been under scrutiny because the closely fought state put President Bush over the top in November.

At the two precincts located at Benedictine, both heavily Democratic, Libertarian Michael Badnarik received 164 votes, almost half as many as Kerry, who got 334. In the adjacent precinct, Constitution Party candidate Michael Peroutka received 215 votes to Kerry's 299.

Because most of the problems occurred in heavily Democratic precincts, the errors seem to have cost votes for Kerry, the newspaper reported.

Michael Vu, Cuyahoga County's election director, said the findings would be investigated, and said they showed the need for more poll worker training.

So he would have gotten POSSIBLY a total of 379 more votes than before. Yep, that 119 THOUSAND margin sure is a lot smaller now.

And if the precinct was heavily Democratic, why the hell didn't the DEMOCRATIC election director handle this BEFORE the election? :lol:


Vu, a Democrat, says his philosophy is simple: "Doing what it takes within the statutes, within ethics and within morals. Working hard. And keeping my staff accountable as well as myself.

wendersfan 12-10-04 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by Myster X
When will the media and Democrats let this go.

Not until a Democrat is sitting in the White House, I fear. I get emails every day from friends of mine asking me to attend meetings of groups asking for recounts. I politely ignore them all.

My impression is that a lot of Democrats refuse to believe that a Republican can't get elected President without the fix being in somehow. I think they call this condition 'denial'.

Draven 12-10-04 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by DivxGuy
A victory with both a two-point plurality and a genuine majority is not a squeaker. Even if some of the regional races were tight.

Clinton's first victory was in the neighborhood of 42%, yet I don't recall anyone casting doubt on its legitimacy.

I don't remember him acting like it was a decisive victory for his administration. Bush seems to flat out ignore that nearly half of this country didn't think he was worth re-electing.

Oh, and the popular vote STILL doesn't mean anything. It didn't mean anything in 2000 and it doesn't mean anything now.

dick_grayson 12-10-04 03:17 PM

I'd say either side would be doing the same thing, if they'd lost. I think it's stupid myself, but I don't think it's a democrat only type of thing.

bhk 12-10-04 03:31 PM


I don't remember him acting like it was a decisive victory for his administration. Bush seems to flat out ignore that nearly half of this country didn't think he was worth re-electing.
People keep saying this but there were a lot more people who voted for him or didn't care enough about getting him out than there were who voted against him. It isn't "nearly half of the country didn't think he was worth re-electing." It isn't even close.

Clinton did act like he won a decisive victory in 1992.

bhk 12-10-04 03:35 PM


I'd say either side would be doing the same thing, if they'd lost. I think it's stupid myself, but I don't think it's a democrat only type of thing.
I'd say that you are incorrect. Contrast Nixon v. Kennedy in 1960 to Bush v. Gore 2000 or what is happening now.
Heck, contrast Ashcroft v. Carnahan in 2000 when MO elected a dead man to the Senate.

wendersfan 12-10-04 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by bhk
I'd say that you are incorrect. Contrast Nixon v. Kennedy in 1960 to Bush v. Gore 2000 or what is happening now.
Heck, contrast Ashcroft v. Carnahan in 2000 when MO elected a dead man to the Senate.

To be fair, I don't think Kennedy V. Nixon is relevant anymore. That was a different era, and in retrospect Richard Nixon had more class than almost any Democratic politician of national stature today.

DivxGuy 12-12-04 04:44 PM


I don't remember him acting like it was a decisive victory for his administration.
I do. And his actions reflected such an attitude, exemplified by the way he arm-twisted his allies in Congress to push through the semi-auto ban in 1994, despite their pleas that the legislation was too much, too soon.

DJLinus 12-13-04 10:52 AM

http://www.wbns10tv.com/Global/story...6&nav=LUERU75v


Democrat John Kerry is asking county elections officials to allow his witnesses to visually inspect the 92,000 ballots cast in Ohio in which no vote for president was recorded, a Kerry lawyer said Sunday night.
Yeah, because given our two choices this election year, how could anyone consciously choose not to vote for one of the major presidential candidates? Notify Sean Penn at once.


Kerry's campaign supports the recount but says it won't change the election outcome.
As an Ohio resident, I'm thrilled to financially support this useless recount. :rolleyes:

Somewhat interesting aside: the lawyer quoted in this story was my Election Law professor last year. Pretty much every three credit class lasted a little bit over an hour (including a break, as it was a night class). For a class with such dry subject matter, he was a blessing.

Nazgul 12-13-04 02:06 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Delay sought in Ohio electoral vote

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Dissident groups asked the Ohio Supreme Court on Monday to review the outcome of the state's presidential race, hours before the Ohio delegation to the Electoral College was to cast ballots for president and vice president.

The groups question whether President Bush won the key swing state by 119,000 votes, guaranteeing his victory over Democrat John Kerry.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and attorney Cliff Arnebeck of the Massachusetts-based Alliance for Democracy accused President Bush's campaign of "high-tech vote stealing."

Jackson said the challengers noticed Bush generally received more votes in counties that use optical-scan voting machines and questioned whether the machines were calibrated to record votes for Bush.

The dissidents claim there were disparities in vote totals for Democrats, too few voting machines in Democrat-leaning precincts, organized campaigns directing voters to the wrong polling place and confusion over the counting of provisional ballots by voters whose names did not appear in the records at polling places.

If the court decides to hear the challenge, it can declare a new winner or throw out the results. The challengers also planned to ask the court to stop the Electoral College delegation's vote until their case can be decided.

Protesters had been expected to demonstrate outside the Capitol as Electoral College delegates voted in the Ohio Senate chamber, but none were present as the vote began at midday.

Congressional Democrats sent a letter to Republican Gov. Bob Taft on Monday, asking him to delay the Electoral College vote or at least consider the results unofficial until the disputes are resolved.

Taft spokesman Orest Holubec said the governor would not postpone the vote or treat it as provisional.

"The vote is required to move forward by law, and it will more forward," Holubec said. "The vote has been certified by the secretary of state, and all of the valid provisionals have been counted."

Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, defended the election results. For the challengers' accusations to be true, he said, officials in both parties would have had to conspire to throw the election.

"That's simply a ridiculous assertion," he said.

Led by a coalition representing the Green and Libertarian parties, the dissidents are paying for recounts in each of Ohio's 88 counties that will begin this week. The recounts are not expected to be complete until next week.

Kerry issued a statement last week saying reported voting problems should be investigated to ensure there are no doubts in future elections. His campaign does not dispute that Bush won the election, but supports the recounts.

kenbuzz 12-13-04 11:00 PM

So let me get this straight. Instead of Bush winning by one hundred eighteen thousand seven hundred seventy five votes, he only actually won by one hundred eighteen thousand three hundred ninety six? Insead of winning by 2.11 percent the actual margin was a mere 2.10 percent!!!

Thank god they got it right.

I wonder how much that fourth decimal place cost the Ohio Democratic party?

bhk 12-14-04 09:37 AM

This whole stupid thing is being done so that democrats can spend the next 4 years whining that the Bush presidency isn't legitimate. Nothing else.

wendersfan 12-14-04 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by bhk
This whole stupid thing is being done so that democrats can spend the next 4 years whining that the Bush presidency isn't legitimate. Nothing else.

Gee, ya think?

kenbuzz 12-14-04 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by Nazgul
The Rev. Jesse Jackson and attorney Cliff Arnebeck of the Massachusetts-based Alliance for Democracy accused President Bush's campaign of "high-tech vote stealing."

Jackson said the challengers noticed Bush generally received more votes in counties that use optical-scan voting machines and questioned whether the machines were calibrated to record votes for Bush.

Or maybe, just maybe, those precincts had more voters who VOTED FOR BUSH?!?

Jesse, go away. You're inconsequential.

Myster X 12-16-04 07:00 PM

Good stuff....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041216/D87109CO0.html

Ohio Justice Throws Out Election Challenge

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - The Ohio Supreme Court's chief justice on Thursday threw out a challenge to the state's presidential election results.

The 40 voters who brought the case will likely be able to refile the challenge.

Chief Justice Thomas Moyer ruled that the request improperly challenged two separate election results. Ohio law only allows one race to be challenged in a single complaint, he said.

The challenge was backed by the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Cliff Arnebeck, a Columbus attorney for the Massachusetts-based Alliance for Democracy, who accused Bush's campaign of "high-tech vote stealing."

Claiming fraud, the voters cited reports of voting-machine errors, double-counting of ballots and a shortage of voting machines in predominantly minority precincts as reasons to throw out the results.

Ohio and its 20 electoral votes determined the outcome of the election, tipping the race to President Bush. The state declared Bush the winner by 119,000 votes, but counties are in the middle of a recount - requested by two minor party candidates and supported by John Kerry's campaign.

The complaint questioned how the actual results could show Bush winning when exit-poll interview findings on election night indicated that Kerry would win 52 percent of Ohio's presidential vote. :lol:

Without listing specific evidence, the complaint alleges that 130,656 votes for Kerry and John Edwards in 36 counties were somehow switched to count for the Bush-Cheney ticket.

The allegations are based on an analysis comparing the presidential race to Moyer's Supreme Court race against a Cleveland municipal judge.

But nothing in state law or any previous court decision allows challenges to be combined, Moyer said.

"Were this court to sanction consolidation here it would establish a precedent whereby twenty-five voters could challenge, in a single case, the election results of every statewide race and issue on the ballot in any given election," Moyer wrote.

Messages seeking comment on the court decision were left for Jackson and Arnebeck.

wendersfan 12-29-04 08:51 AM

<b>Ohio Recount Ends, Shows Vote Closer</b>

TOLEDO, Ohio - <b>Election officials finished the presidential recount in Ohio on Tuesday, with the final tally shaving about 300 votes off President Bush's six-figure margin of victory in the state that gave him a second term.</b>

The recount shows Bush winning Ohio by 118,457 votes over John Kerry, according to unofficial results provided to The Associated Press by the 88 counties. Lucas County, home to Toledo, was the last to finish counting.

The state had earlier declared Bush the winner by 118,775 votes and plans to adjust its totals to reflect the recount later this week.

The Kerry campaign supported the recount, but said it did not expect the tally to change the election winner. Supporters of the recount, requested by two minor party candidates, said they wanted to make sure every valid vote was counted.

Kerry gained 734 more votes in the recount, and Bush picked up 449, mostly from disqualified ballots that were counted in the second tally because hanging chads had come loose when ballots were handled again or rerun through counting machines.

That put Kerry 285 votes closer to Bush. The president's victory margin declined by about three dozen more votes when some counties adjusted their certified vote totals.

The Green and Libertarian party presidential candidates asked for the recount and raised the $113,600 required under state law for the process.

<b>Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell has estimated that the recount will end up costing taxpayers $1.5 million.</b>

Witnesses who watched workers count ballots by hand and machine said the effort provided assurance that boards were accurately counting ballots.

But the completion of the recount will not bring an end to questions surrounding the vote in Ohio.

A group of voters citing fraud have challenged the election results with the Ohio Supreme Court. The voters, supported by the Rev. Jesse Jackson, have cited irregularities including long lines, a shortage of voting machines in minority precincts and problems with computer equipment.

Attorney General Jim Petro has called the challenge frivolous and argued that the state Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction over a federal election.

Cliff Arnebeck, an attorney representing the voters in the challenge, wasn't taking much stock in the recount effort. He questioned why there was no independent investigation into the accuracy of counting machines to determine whether the machines had been tampered with.

"You're allowing the original error to be repeated a second time, so it's not a meaningful recount," he said.

nevermind 12-29-04 09:25 AM


Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell has estimated that the recount will end up costing taxpayers $1.5 million.
The difference in the margin of victory translates to $4,716.99 per vote. Yikes.

classicman2 12-29-04 09:25 AM

The citizens of Ohio should be outraged.

I highly recommend tar & feathering of a few selected individuals responsible for this fiasco.

Chew 12-29-04 09:26 AM

Wow, $5,000 per vote gained. What a bargain....

nevermind 12-29-04 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by classicman2
The citizens of Ohio should be outraged.

I highly recommend tar & feathering of a few selected individuals responsible for this fiasco.


There's no money left for the tar or feathers ;)

wendersfan 12-29-04 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by classicman2
The citizens of Ohio should be outraged.

:wave: Here's one citizen who is pretty angry about this.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.