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Looks like Germany found a new ally along with France

Old 12-06-04, 03:47 PM
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Looks like Germany found a new ally along with France

Germany Seeks to End EU's China Arms Ban

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines

December 6, 2004, 1:30 PM EST

BEIJING -- German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on Monday called for an end to a 15-year-old European arms embargo on China imposed after the bloody crackdown on the Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests, as the two countries signed contracts worth $2.1 billion for Airbus jets and other industrial goods.

On his sixth trip to China, Schroeder received a warm welcome from Premier Wen Jiabao, who called the visit "another family meeting" at the start of talks in the Great Hall of the People, the seat of China's legislature in central Beijing.

At a news conference later, Schroeder noted his past calls for an end to the European Union's 15-year-old ban on weapons sales to China, and said, "My opinion hasn't changed."

Wen called the ban an outdated "result of the Cold War" and said he hoped for a decision on it at a European Union summit on Dec. 17, though he didn't say whether he expected the ban to be lifted.

Wen is expected to lobby European leaders this week at an EU-China conference in the Netherlands. Beijing says a failure to lift the arms embargo could harm diplomatic relations.

Germany and France are eager to do business with China's military, which is spending billions of dollars modernizing its arsenal, with much of the business now going to Russia. But other EU governments say Beijing has failed to do enough to improve its human rights record.

Schroeder has also been criticized by members of his Social Democrat and Green party coalition for backing a lifting of the arms ban.

Meanwhile, a $1.3 billion deal signed Monday calls for a state company that buys aircraft for China's airlines to purchase Airbus A319, A320 and A321 jets, according to German officials.

Germany's DaimlerChrysler AG is a major shareholder in the European consortium that owns Airbus SAS.

China also signed contracts with German industrial giant Siemens AG to purchase railway locomotives worth $480 million and power-generation equipment for $280 million, according to Schroeder's delegation.

Also Monday, the German leader attended the laying of a cornerstone for a new Beijing factory built by DaimlerChrysler and a Chinese joint-venture partner.

China says Germany has been its biggest European trading partner for three decades. In the first 10 months of this year, their trade totaled $43.6 billion, the official Xinhua News Agency said, citing figures from the Ministry of Commerce.

Schroeder was to meet President Hu Jintao on Tuesday before visiting the northeastern city of Changchun. He travels Wednesday to Japan, where he and Japanese leaders are expected to discuss the campaign by both of their governments to obtain seats on the United Nations Security Council.
Copyright 2004, The Associated Press
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Old 12-06-04, 07:35 PM
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It's about time China had weapons. And Germany is just the nation to have a good influence...
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Old 12-06-04, 07:57 PM
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Isn't China our biggest trading partner?

What exactly is the rationale behind an arms embargo to a friendly nation?
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Old 12-06-04, 07:57 PM
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and people say the the US is bloodthirsty in selling so much weapons
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Old 12-06-04, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
Isn't China our biggest trading partner?

What exactly is the rationale behind an arms embargo to a friendly nation?

did you seriously just refer to China as a friendly nation?

They might not be "enemies", but they're not our friends.

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Old 12-06-04, 08:41 PM
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Not a shock. Germany has seen the writing on the wall. France is in charge of the EU's foriegn policy.
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Old 12-06-04, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Birrman54
did you seriously just refer to China as a friendly nation?

They might not be "enemies", but they're not our friends.

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I don't consider them a friendly nation, but our government certainly does.
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Old 12-06-04, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TracerBullet
I don't consider them a friendly nation, but our government certainly does.
I don't think we consider them friendly enough to sell weapons to, though.
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Old 12-06-04, 10:00 PM
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China makes weapons, and sells them to the US. They don't need the US to sell them weapons. Their technology is getting better by the day, and the US's involvement in supplying parts, is becoming obsolete.
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Old 12-06-04, 10:55 PM
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Hilarious how the U.S. right wing goes into a froth when other nations have the gall to do business with regimes of uncertain rectitude, but utter nary a peep when their own hegemonic regimes sell weapons to terrorists who later attack them...just to begin.
By the way, China is hardly still a communist country. I'm sure there are more U.S. sweatshops there than anywhere else. Its economy is expanding at a rate such that it is volatile and very vulnerable to collapse.

Why don't you investigate the U.S. governments ongoing interference in Venezuela, first in 2002 when a coup attempt almost succeeded, and again a couple of months ago when Chavez won re-election despite the best efforts of U.S. meddlers?
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Old 12-06-04, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Norm de Plume
Hilarious how the U.S. right wing goes into a froth when other nations have the gall to do business with regimes of uncertain rectitude, but utter nary a peep when their own hegemonic regimes sell weapons to terrorists who later attack them...just to begin.
By the way, China is hardly still a communist country. I'm sure there are more U.S. sweatshops there than anywhere else. Its economy is expanding at a rate such that it is volatile and very vulnerable to collapse.
Generally we only go into a froth when supposed friendly nations that claim to share common goals and ideals do business with nations and regimes that oppose those common goals and ideals, particularly when they do so for the expressed reason of undermining the United States of America.

And maybe I missed it, but which nations did we supply with weapons recently that then proceeded to attack us?



Why don't you investigate the U.S. governments ongoing interference in Venezuela, first in 2002 when a coup attempt almost succeeded, and again a couple of months ago when Chavez won re-election despite the best efforts of U.S. meddlers?



I have investigated quite a bit on the situation in Venezuela. It is indeed disgusting and disturbing what chavez has done to that nation and to the freedoms of her people. The corrupt manner in which he and his supporters rigged his "re-election", and the depths to which he will sink to ensure his hold on power, should be troubling to all the citizens of the world.
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Old 12-07-04, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pharoh
Generally we only go into a froth when supposed friendly nations that claim to share common goals and ideals do business with nations and regimes that oppose those common goals and ideals, particularly when they do so for the expressed reason of undermining the United States of America.

And maybe I missed it, but which nations did we supply with weapons recently that then proceeded to attack us?






I have investigated quite a bit on the situation in Venezuela. It is indeed disgusting and disturbing what chavez has done to that nation and to the freedoms of her people. The corrupt manner in which he and his supporters rigged his "re-election", and the depths to which he will sink to ensure his hold on power, should be troubling to all the citizens of the world.
They love blaming US actions during the Cold War on the "Right Wing" and using those mistakes to justify making even more mistakes.

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Old 12-07-04, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pharoh
Generally we only go into a froth when supposed friendly nations that claim to share common goals and ideals do business with nations and regimes that oppose those common goals and ideals, particularly when they do so for the expressed reason of undermining the United States of America.
That's amusing, because what neocons perceive as common goals of all "civilized" peoples are not what much of the rest of the world sees as desirable. What the U.S. has done over the years, most recently attacking Iraq against the contrary demands of the representative international body, is so beyond the pale that it is astoundingly arrogant for you Repubs to be defiant and self-righteous to boot.
And maybe I missed it, but which nations did we supply with weapons recently that then proceeded to attack us?
Maybe you did. During the Cold War Afghanistan was given money, Stinger missiles, and other weaponry to repel the Soviets. One of the fighters on the receiving end was of course...so I guess you could say Afghanistan by proxy
attacked you. Iran/Contra could also be seen as an example of this paradoxical trade, with Ortega at the receiving end of the perfidy.
I have investigated quite a bit on the situation in Venezuela. It is indeed disgusting and disturbing what chavez has done to that nation and to the freedoms of her people. The corrupt manner in which he and his supporters rigged his "re-election", and the depths to which he will sink to ensure his hold on power, should be troubling to all the citizens of the world.
Chavez rigged the re-election? Are you a joke? Firstly, Chavez represents the indigent, who make up a great majority of the populace. There is a small but powerful group of the country's elite, with ownership of much of the media (Hmmm, an overwhelmingly dissident media? No real oppressor would allow that.) and connections in D.C. These elites are of course the first ones rushing to vote. Many of the poor, on the other hand, live in remote areas and/or are uneducated and disenfranchised by decades of fruitless toil.
In 2002, out of desperation, the wealthy opponents, directly in concert with the White House, kidnapped Chavez. The "liberal" media worldwide reported that Chavez loyalists had fired upon a crowd of demonstrators. Eyewitness accounts and closer inspection of the tape showed that in fact the Chavez supporters had come under attack first.
Chavez is trying to do a lot of good for his country. It's too bad it's not amenable to your ideology, but you'll have to live with it.
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Old 12-07-04, 02:50 AM
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Since we took out Iraq, I guess France and Germany need a new customer...
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Old 12-07-04, 03:05 AM
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I have to say that it is reported there are elites to who do not like Chavez. Generally, if wealthy people don't like you, it's a good thing for humanity.
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