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Yet more governement agencies, elected officials shove Christmas cheer down throats

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Yet more governement agencies, elected officials shove Christmas cheer down throats

Old 12-03-04, 01:26 PM
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Yet more government agencies, elected officials shove Christmas cheer down throats

After Arnie's recent breach of public trust, this is only adding insult to injury to unbelievers, atheists and secularists everywhere...
In About-Face, Denver Mayor Allows Lighted 'Merry Christmas' Sign on Display After All
DENVER (AP) - Seeking to avoid an emotionally charged battle, the mayor reversed a decision to remove the lights spelling out "Merry Christmas" from a city holiday display.
Mayor John Hickenlooper said Thursday that his office was flooded with complaints after he announced he would remove the message next year and replace it with the inclusive "Happy Holidays."

"I didn't even think twice about it, and it's perhaps my inexperience as an elected official," said Hickenlooper, who took office last year. "To have it veer off in this other direction, where so many people felt being deprived of this tradition, was certainly not what we intended."

He said the city might add "Happy Holidays" to the display next year.

Authorities in Chicago did a similar about-face this week. The Chicago Transit Authority sparked an outcry when it announced it was canceling its specially decorated "holiday train" because of budget constraints.

Carole Brown, president of the CTA board, said Thursday she's asked staff to restore it, because board members she talked to "all want this holiday train up and running."

The train, a tradition for a dozen years, features holiday music, thousands of colored lights, interior hand poles wrapped to look like candy canes and a flatcar in the middle that carries a live Santa. CTA officials said with so little time this year, the reinstated train will be scaled back somewhat.
Shame.

Last edited by Mutley Hyde; 12-03-04 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:32 PM
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Wow.
So they require me to go to church now? I must worship their God/Christ? They dragged me from my home to gaze longingly at 'Merry Christmas'?

No?

Then it doesn't matter.

Don't claim to speak for everyone. I'm a 'secularist' and an atheist, and I could give a crap what they call the tree. I put a Christmas tree in my house every year.

If I sneeze and someone says 'God bless you', or someone on the phone says 'Have a blessed day', I say 'Thank you' not 'F* you.'

Then again, perhaps I'm just more mature and strong in my beliefs than all these politically correct fools.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:32 PM
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You really think anyone cares about this except people that are as committed to atheism as Pat Robertson is to Christianity?

Nobody know that Christmas is about Christ anymore except the atheists who keep protesting this kind of thing. But thanks for reminding them.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave

You really think anyone cares about this except people that are as committed to atheism as Pat Robertson is to Christianity?

Thank you. As an atheist who wishes people Merry Christmas (and celebrates Christmas) and Happy Hannukah, I can exclaim a big fat "WHO CARES" to this move (and moves by other elected officials) by the Denver Mayor.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by dtcarson
If I sneeze and someone says 'God bless you', or someone on the phone says 'Have a blessed day', I say 'Thank you' not 'F* you.'
Thank you, you made my ribs hurt.

Originally posted by kvrdave


You really think anyone cares about this except people that are as committed to atheism as Pat Robertson is to Christianity?
No, not really.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:55 PM
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I should have said "like" instead of "as"


But I think you got the point.....you troll
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Old 12-03-04, 02:08 PM
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[Joseph Merrick]I am not a troll![/Joseph Merrick]

Oh yeah, I got the point, and I didn't see anything wrong with how you worded it... stop being so self conscious.
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Old 12-03-04, 02:28 PM
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How can they possibly take away more civil liberties when John Ashcroft has resigned already?
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Old 12-03-04, 03:23 PM
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I'm an atheist existentialist and I don't care. I still put up a tree and give out gifts too.

Oh,

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE
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Old 12-03-04, 03:27 PM
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I'm an agnostic, but I still have my doubts.

To echo island... Merry Christmas, the lot of ya!
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Old 12-03-04, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
Thank you. As an atheist who wishes people Merry Christmas (and celebrates Christmas) and Happy Hannukah, I can exclaim a big fat "WHO CARES" to this move (and moves by other elected officials) by the Denver Mayor.
of course.

- David Stein
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Old 12-03-04, 03:49 PM
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Happy Xmas, Xmas people!
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Old 12-03-04, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by dtcarson
If I sneeze and someone says 'God bless you', or someone on the phone says 'Have a blessed day', I say 'Thank you' not 'F* you.'


Seriously, that just made my day. And that's saying a lot considering I'm home sick with the flu. I can't hear, feel, nor smell anything.....everything I eat tastes like cardboard.
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Old 12-03-04, 04:01 PM
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Mmm.....cardboard....
I'm glad : )
not that you're suffering with the flu, but that I injected a little cheer to your day

It is amazing how militantly offended some people get at relatively simple things.
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Old 12-04-04, 06:41 AM
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...And the other shoe drops.

Resident sues Bay Harbor to include nativity scene in holiday display

A Bay Harbor Islands resident has asked a federal court to compel the town in northeast Miami-Dade County to include a nativity scene in its holiday decorations.

<b>Sondra Snowdon, who last year went on a three-month fast to protest the lack of a Christian holiday display in her community, claimed in a federal lawsuit that the town violated her civil rights.</b> The suit, filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Miami, names the town, City Manager Greg Tindle and Mayor Isaac Salver as defendants.

Town Attorney Craig B. Sherman seemed confident the town would prevail.

"All the town's holiday decorations are in compliance with applicable law," he said.

The decoration debate started in 2001, when town leaders agreed to put up six Stars of David and a giant menorah next to the toll bridge over the Broad Causeway, after some Jewish residents requested them. Two years later, Snowdon complained that the holiday decorations were one-sided, and <b>she started fasting to persuade town leaders to also put up Christian decorations.</b> ( )

Snowdon also sought help from the Thomas More Law Center in Michigan, which defends Christian beliefs. In October, Snowdon marched into the Town Council's chambers and once again asked them to put up four nativity scene banners. Cities are entitled to put up decorations as long as it doesn't appear they are endorsing one religion, said attorney Richard Thompson, also with the Michigan law center. But in this case Bay Harbor Islands officials "were clearly expressing a favoritism for Judaism," he said.
So once again: Either Christmas <i>is</i> a Christian holiday (in which case, no Christmas displays) or Christmas <i>is not</i> a Christian holiday (in which case, Christmas trees but no nativity scenes.)

- David Stein
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Old 12-04-04, 09:10 AM
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Christmas, to me, is not a Christian holiday. I know the origins.

The protests are merely another example of how silly the courts and officials of this country have become. I fully expect even a greater amount of silliness before some sanity is returned.
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Old 12-04-04, 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by classicman2
The protests are merely another example of how silly the courts and officials of this country have become.
I didn't realize the courts and officials were the ones protesting.

- David Stein
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Old 12-04-04, 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd
I didn't realize the courts and officials were the ones protesting.

- David Stein
Whose actions caused the protests?
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Old 12-04-04, 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd
...And the other shoe drops...
My response is in the the other thread.
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Old 12-04-04, 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
Whose actions caused the protests?
So the fact that other people are protesting makes the courts silly? I don't understand your logic.

- David Stein
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Old 12-04-04, 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd
...And the other shoe drops.


So once again: Either Christmas <i>is</i> a Christian holiday (in which case, no Christmas displays) or Christmas <i>is not</i> a Christian holiday (in which case, Christmas trees but no nativity scenes.)

- David Stein
I don't know why it can't be both. Certainly there are wiccans who view Halloween as a religious holiday and a large percentage of the population who see it as nothing. There are also those who see it as having a "Christianized" origin, etc. I think a holiday can certainly mean different things to different people and not havea "seperation of church and state" issue.

If Christmas is about the birth of "our Lord and Savior" then great. If it is about "Family, Friends, Hope and Peace" then great. If it is about "Free stuff" then great. But I don't see why it can't be all of those.
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Old 12-04-04, 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
I don't know why it can't be both.
Personally, sure. In the context of an argument for convincing the government to do something, no, it can't. You can't first argue that Christmas trees are OK since they're not a symbol of a religious holiday, and then argue that not displaying the nativity scene among the Christmas decorations violates your civil liberties because it <i>is</i> a religious holiday.

- David Stein
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Old 12-04-04, 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd
Personally, sure. In the context of an argument for convincing the government to do something, no, it can't. You can't first argue that Christmas trees are OK since they're not a symbol of a religious holiday, and then argue that not displaying the nativity scene among the Christmas decorations violates your civil liberties because it <i>is</i> a religious holiday.

- David Stein
I agree with that part. And I can't see any sense in suing a government agency to include religious things, but I can see a government easily deciding that Christmas (or other holidays) can have secular and religious meaning and not be breaking the 1st ammendment.
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Old 12-05-04, 12:22 PM
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Merry Christmas, all you heathens.
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Old 12-05-04, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldblum
Merry Christmas, all you heathens.
And to the delusional bible-freaks, I wish you a happy Festivus.

- David Stein
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