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Schwarzenegger saves Christmas

Old 12-03-04, 11:24 AM
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Schwarzenegger saves Christmas

http://www.marinij.com/Stories/0,141...574030,00.html

Governor puts Christmas back into tree ceremony
By Brian Melley, Associated Press

SACRAMENTO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger took on the role of "Triminator" yesterday, helping a disabled girl hang the final ornament on the state Christmas tree and ending a secular practice of calling it a "holiday tree."

Schwarzenegger did not mention the name change that was done in honor of the late Sen. William "Pete" Knight, who had lobbied unsuccessfully for the change before his death earlier this year.

Before lighting the tree, Schwarzenegger talked about his Christmas traditions growing up in Austria, singing carols in German around a tree trimmed with candy, cookies and real candles.

"Back then not in my wildest dreams did I think about that one day I would be standing here in front of the Capitol in Sacramento as the governor and lighting the official state Christmas tree," he said.

A choir sang "Tis the Season," as Schwarzenegger helped Ariana Pole, a 7-year-old with cerebral palsy, put the final handmade ornament on the 56-foot white fir.

Then he and first lady Maria Shriver flipped a switch to light 5,000 multicolored bulbs as about 1,000 people watched.

It was the 73rd annual lighting of the tree. Four years ago, during the state's power crisis, Gov. Gray Davis lit the tree and then turned it off to save energy.

Davis also changed the name to the holiday tree, a practice Schwarzenegger followed last year, soon after taking office.

The governor's office wouldn't comment on the name change this year, but Schwarzenegger said during Knight's funeral in May that the yuletide tree would be called the Christmas tree as long as he was in office.


Schwarzenegger said at the funeral that it was one of the first things the senator approached him about. Days after Schwarzenegger ousted Davis from office, Knight, R-Palmdale, requested a meeting with his fellow Republican to complain.

"He was just practically going crazy," Schwarzenegger said at the funeral. "I could see the veins popping out."

Knight, who said the name change dishonored a Christian symbol in the name of inclusiveness, wrote a bill to change the name, but the measure died.


Nice to see him not catering to the PC crowd.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:33 AM
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He already did!

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Old 12-03-04, 11:38 AM
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Uh oh, this is a clear example of the state sanctioning religion, and with a rogue elected official illegally going against the state congress with no due process whatsoever on top of it all.

We are doomed. 1984 and Big Brother and all that. All hail Caesar Schwarzenegger! No, make that Father Schwarzenegger!

FIGHT THE POWER! NO WAR FOR CHRISTMAS TREES!!!
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Old 12-03-04, 11:54 AM
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Knight, who said the name change dishonored a Christian symbol in the name of inclusiveness
Christmas trees are a Christian symbol? I mean I know the history of them and while every church I've ever attended usually does some sort of Christmas tree I've never really considered it a "Christian symbol"... maybe that's just me.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:57 AM
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I agree nemein. It's not necessarily a Christian symbol, but it's always called a Christmas tree.

*shrug*

http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html
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Old 12-03-04, 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by nemein
Christmas trees are a Christian symbol? I mean I know the history of them and while every church I've ever attended usually does some sort of Christmas tree I've never really considered it a "Christian symbol"... maybe that's just me.
Really more German than Christian.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:06 PM
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Really more German than Christian.
Ah... so you're saying it's more evidence of Arnold returning to his facist roots uh?


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Old 12-03-04, 12:09 PM
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Religious Indoctrination, Religious Indoctrination, Religious Indoctrination!!!!!!
Yeaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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Old 12-03-04, 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by nemein
Ah... so you're saying it's more evidence of Arnold returning to his facist roots uh?




A couple of months ago, I might have criticized him for that stuff, but recently I found out that a distant cousin of mine served under Mussolini. Not quite the same, but I understand a little better now.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:14 PM
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Good for him.

Christmas is more of a cultural and retail holiday than a Christian one (nationally) anyway.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:28 PM
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Exactly. Christmas is *maybe* 5% Christian/religious anymore, if that [in general of course].
What would be next, the Holiday Bunny? Holiday-o-Lanterns?
I never understood the uproar over certain words. I haven't been to church in 18 years [well, twice for a wedding] but I still call it a Christmas tree and celebrate Christmas.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:37 PM
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Here's the Chrismons tree that originated in my church growing up:



Yes, it is that tall.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:44 PM
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This doesn't really matter to me either way. However I want to note that those of you who say this is okay because Christmas is mostly a secular holiday anyway should think twice before ever complaining that Christmas has become commercialized and really is about Jesus. Can't have it both ways.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:05 PM
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'Holiday trees' make the fictitious baby Jesus cry.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:08 PM
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Re: Schwarzenegger saves Christmas

Originally posted by DJLinus
Nice to see him not catering to the PC crowd.
I'm fine with it either way. The Christian crowd just needs to recognize that this is a trade-off: Don't be surprised if the argument that Christmas and Christmas trees aren't symbols of Christianity comes back to haunt you. As long as the position is consistent, I don't care which one it is.

- David Stein

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Old 12-03-04, 01:17 PM
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Wait, Christmas isn't a symbol of Christianity? We're joking here, right? I mean sure, you can say that the holiday has become overly commercial, but to say that Christmas is not a symbol of Christianity is being rather inventive.

That's like saying the 4th of July isn't a symbol of America's independance of Britain because it's just about fireworks these days.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde
Wait, Christmas isn't a symbol of Christianity? We're joking here, right?
I don't agree with it, but I can see it as a valid argument.

What's the purpose of Thanksgiving? I'll bet maybe 30% of Americans would say it's turkey and football.

What's the purpose of Halloween? I'll bet 70% of Americans think it's dressing up and getting candy.

- David Stein
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Old 12-03-04, 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde
Wait, Christmas isn't a symbol of Christianity? We're joking here, right? I mean sure, you can say that the holiday has become overly commercial, but to say that Christmas is not a symbol of Christianity is being rather inventive.

That's like saying the 4th of July isn't a symbol of America's independance of Britain because it's just about fireworks these days.
Good point.....if non americans celebrated it as well.

But if you ask the question, "Do you give or receive gifts on December 25th", the majority of atheists will answer in the affirmative, I would wager.

Other holidays (actually including Christmas) were pagan and taken over by Christianity, so why is it hard to believe that the same holidays are now taken over by "consumerism"?
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Old 12-03-04, 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Duran
This doesn't really matter to me either way. However I want to note that those of you who say this is okay because Christmas is mostly a secular holiday anyway should think twice before ever complaining that Christmas has become commercialized and really is about Jesus. Can't have it both ways.
I'm sorry, I don't get this. Christmas historically *is* about Jesus. It *was* about Jesus. It has been commercialized. For certain people, it still is about Jesus primarily. However, for most people, it has very little religious meaning anymore. Whether that be because of the overcommercialization of it, or the decrease in religious intensity throughout people's lives, or something else, I don't know.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Other holidays (actually including Christmas) were pagan and taken over by Christianity, so why is it hard to believe that the same holidays are now taken over by "consumerism"?
Hmmmm... you shut up!

As for your point about gift hogging atheists, I think you're correct. My brother is a religion hating, intolerant, devout atheist, yet he loooovves 'holiday cheer' and the gift swapping. Just seems somehow 'off' to me.

I myself hate organized religion, but have no problem whatsoever with believers themselves (except when they prosalytize ad infinitum and keep me from enjoying my spiked eggnog). But with my brother, he goes beyond attacking corrupt institutional religion and hates individuals for their beliefs... I think that's wrong.

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Old 12-03-04, 01:38 PM
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There is always a reason to find an exception for getting gifts.
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Old 12-03-04, 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Duran
This doesn't really matter to me either way. However I want to note that those of you who say this is okay because Christmas is mostly a secular holiday anyway should think twice before ever complaining that Christmas has become commercialized and really is about Jesus. Can't have it both ways.
Heh. Whoops. I wrote exactly the same thing like 15 mins later.

- David Stein
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Old 12-03-04, 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde
Hmmmm... you shut up!

As for your point about gift hogging atheists, I think you're correct. My brother is a religion hating, intolerant, devout atheist, yet he loooovves 'holiday cheer' and the gift swapping. Just seems somehow 'off' to me.

I myself hate organized religion, but have no problem whatsoever with believers themselves (except when they prosalytize ad infinitum and keep me from enjoying my spiked eggnog). But with my brother, he goes beyond attacking corrupt institutional religion and hates individuals for their beliefs... I think that's wrong.
Good delineation.
I don't hate 'religion'. I dislike hypocrites, and I dislike religion as a crutch, and I detest some of what various Churches have done. But they also have done many good things, both for their members and nonmembers.
But if someone worships God, Allah, YHVH, Bog, Cthulhu, whatever, as long as you stop proselytizing to me when I ask you to, and keep an open mind when I talk about my beliefs, since mine is open with yours. Separate the person from the beliefs. Now, judging them on *actions* is another. If someone says 'You know, I think you're going to hell because you're an atheist.' Okay, we'll agree to disagree. But if you start physically dragging to me church, or harassing family, or vandalizing, then I become real intolerant real quick.
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Old 12-03-04, 02:21 PM
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But you'd still give me your address if I said I had a Christmas present for you, right?

I kid, I kid!
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Old 12-03-04, 02:29 PM
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Absosmurfly.
I celebrate Christmas. I don't celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas, but to me, Christmas means spending time with family/friends, and trying to give them meaningful gifts they'd like, and of course recieving same. I can respect that that's not what it means to many religious folks.
I guess I'm 'part of the problem', but I'm not preventing anyone else from going to midnight mass or sunup service or dancing around the holly in their yard, or whatever *their* Christmas rituals are, be they religious or secular.
And even with that, I think Christmas has gotten *too* commercialized; there was Christmas stuff out just after Halloween, and that's just silly. When I worked in retail, Corporate started drop shipping Christmas stuff not too long after July 4th.
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