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Cold War part2? China tests new nuclear sub

Old 12-03-04, 09:32 AM
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Cold War part2? China tests new nuclear sub

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...=theworld&col=

WASHINGTON - China in July test launched a new 094-class of ballistic missile submarine, which is expected to be fully operational in one or two years, well ahead of a Pentagon estimate of around 2010, The Washington Times newspaper said Friday.

One US defense official told the daily the submarine represents ”a more modern, more capable missile platform,” while another called it “China’s first truly intercontinental strategic nuclear delivery system.”

The new submarine, the officials said, was spotted by US intelligence agencies at Huludao shipyard, some 400 kilometers (250 miles) northeast of Beijing.

It was in the early states of being outfitted and is not yet equipped with new JL-2 submarine-launched nuclear missiles, the report said.

The vessel is believed to be based largely on Russian nuclear submarine technology, another defense official said.

It is part of China’s effort to modernize and expand its missile force.

The daily said a Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington had no immediate comment on the report.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5302-2338r.htm
China's military has launched the first of a new class of ballistic missile submarines in what defense officials view as a major step forward in Beijing's strategic weapons program.
The new 094-class submarine was launched in late July and when fully operational in the next year or two will be the first submarine to carry the underwater-launched version of China's new DF-31 missile, according to defense officials.
"When fully operational, it will represent a more modern, more capable missile platform," said one official familiar with reports of the new submarine.
A second intelligence official said building submarines is a top priority of the Chinese, and the Type 094 will be "China's first truly intercontinental strategic nuclear delivery system."
The new Type 094 was spotted by U.S. intelligence agencies at the Huludao shipyard, located on the coast of Bohai Bay, some 250 miles northwest of Beijing.
The submarine is in the early stages of being outfitted and is not yet equipped with new JL-2 submarine-launched nuclear missiles.
The submarine is believed to be based largely on Russian nuclear submarine technology, the officials said.
A CIA report made public last week stated that Russia was a major supplier of technology to China's naval nuclear propulsion programs.
The launching of the new missile submarine appears ahead of schedule. A Pentagon report on Chinese military power made public in May stated that the new Chinese missile submarine would not be deployed until around 2010.
A Defense Intelligence Agency report produced in 1999 and labeled "secret" stated that the new submarine is part of a program by China of "modernizing and expanding its missile force."
"Mobile, solid-fuel missiles and a new ballistic missile submarine will improve the force's ability to survive a first strike," the report said, "while more launchers, on-board penetration aids, and possibly multiple warheads will improve its ability to penetrate missile defenses."
The DIA report stated that China is expected to field one new ballistic missile submarine by 2020.
A Chinese Embassy spokesman had no immediate comment.
In a related development, U.S. intelligence officials said the Chinese suffered a setback in their JL-2 missile program when a test flight of the JL-2 missile failed over the summer.
The JL-2 missile program was delayed by the test failure but is continuing to be developed, the officials said. China conducted tests of the JL-2 in 2002 and last year.
Richard Fisher, vice president of the Washington-based International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the launch of the new missile submarine is "an astounding development."
"The 094 has followed 093 development far more rapidly than the assessments in the annual Pentagon reports on the PLA," Mr. Fisher said, referring to the China's People's Liberation Army.
China also recently launched a new attack submarine known as the Type 093. Additionally, U.S. intelligence agencies were surprised by China's disclosure in July of a third new type of submarine known as the Yuan-class, a diesel-electric attack submarine.
"In the very near future, China will have a secure, second-strike nuclear attack capability that it will use to bolster its nuclear strategy of seeking to deter the United States from aiding Taiwan after a PLA attack," Mr. Fisher said.
Mr. Fisher said the JL-2 likely will have multiple warheads.
The new submarine will make it more difficult for the U.S. military to take part in a defense of Taiwan because of the threat of nuclear retaliation, he said.
The Pentagon has deployed a new missile defense system, but a spokesman for the Missile Defense Agency has said the current interceptor system is designed to stop a long-range North Korean missile, but not an attack from Chinese or Russian missiles.
A 1999 report by the House Select Committee on U.S. National Security and Military/Commercial Concerns with the People's Republic of China stated that the new missile submarine will likely benefit from stolen U.S. nuclear warhead designs.
The report stated that the JL-2 is expected to have a longer range than the DF-31 and that 16 JL-2s will be deployed on the new submarine.
The range of the JL-2 is estimated to be about 7,500 miles, enough "to strike targets throughout the United States," the report said.
"Instead of venturing into the open ocean to attack the United States, the Type 094-class submarines could remain near [Chinese] waters, protected by the [People's Liberation Army,] Navy and Air Force," the report said.
The new submarine will be a major improvement over China's current ballistic missile submarine known as the Xia, which is equipped with medium-range missiles.
The current Xia submarine is considered so noisy to underwater detection gear that its chances of surviving attack submarine strikes in ocean waters are limited.
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Old 12-03-04, 09:52 AM
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Will China's new sub be capable of firing missiles when it is submerged?
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Old 12-03-04, 10:06 AM
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According to one of the article posted above it will be:

The new 094-class submarine was launched in late July and when fully operational in the next year or two will be the first submarine to carry the underwater-launched version of China's new DF-31 missile, according to defense officials.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:09 AM
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I don't trust the Chinese. I don't know if this is going to be a Cold War on the scale of USA vs. USSR, but the way they are modernizing their military definitely gives me pause.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:16 AM
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Sales to Walmart go a long way to build their military machine.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by VinVega
I don't trust the Chinese.
Same here. Why did Clinton have to get so friendly with the Chinese? sigh.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:27 AM
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I love the typical xenophobia. Face it folks America is friendly for one reason, $$$$. It's a huge global market.
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Old 12-03-04, 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew


I love the typical xenophobia. Face it folks America is friendly for one reason, $$$$. It's a huge global market.
Yep!! A one-way market
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Old 12-03-04, 11:50 AM
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I love the typical xenophobia.
I take you think the Chinese aren't a potential problem then?
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Old 12-03-04, 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by nemein
I take you think the Chinese aren't a potential problem then?
Not the problem you guys take them to be. Everyone here acts like the Chinese are going to suddenly start attacking our shores. We are in the process of working with them. Slowly, China is turning capitalist...
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Old 12-03-04, 11:59 AM
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The vessel is believed to be based largely on Russian nuclear submarine technology, another defense official said.
I was concerned until I read this.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nazgul
I was concerned until I read this.
I was slightly concerned as well, but that line and the fact that it's made in China and will no doubt break in a year has me .
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Old 12-03-04, 12:03 PM
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I wonder if they're using the silent propeller technology Toshiba sold the Soviets.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:03 PM
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Not the problem you guys take them to be. Everyone here acts like the Chinese are going to suddenly start attacking our shores. We are in the process of working with them. Slowly, China is turning capitalist...
I must have a lot of people on ignore or something because I don't see anyone advocating too firm of a position either way at this point... Personally I hope the "converting" them works. However while parts of the economy are becoming capitalistic I don't see the same movement on the political side (aka it's still essentially a non-representative form of Gov't).

Regarding the "xenophobic" comment it seems to me you are making generalizations, or do you not believe it is possible to express concern about an issue involving other countries w/o being "xenophobic"?
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Old 12-03-04, 12:05 PM
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I'm sorry, you're right I am generalizing.

I just remember a previous thread where a big hubbub was raised when France made an alliance with China and the reactions that came with it.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew
Not the problem you guys take them to be. Everyone here acts like the Chinese are going to suddenly start attacking our shores. We are in the process of working with them. Slowly, China is turning capitalist...
If they're really turning capitalist, that probably makes them an even greater threat.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
If they're really turning capitalist, that probably makes them an even greater threat.
Well, that is true. If they went 100% they might turn the global economy on its head. But so far the conventional wisdom has been that if we can turn them capitalist, democratic changes would not be far behind.

How well has it worked? Well, it looks like babysteps . I'm not sure how else you can "combat" with China than economically, considering the land mass and number of people.
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Old 12-03-04, 12:52 PM
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What do the China apologists have to say about this development?

This certainly isn't defensive, it's meant to project power throughout the world and certainly upping the stakes in defense requirements and spending for the rest of the world.

And to think we're financing the thing that we will have to pay to counter...
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Old 12-03-04, 01:24 PM
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The whole purpose of a Chinese sub is..... sink American battleships in case China decides to invade Taiwan.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Myster X
The whole purpose of a Chinese sub is..... sink American battleships in case China decides to invade Taiwan.
Not this type, it's a SSBN. It's a First-Strike type option.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Myster X
The whole purpose of a Chinese sub is..... sink American battleships in case China decides to invade Taiwan.
You don't need nuclear for that.

The purpose of these is to be able to expand the target range, reduce time to target and have a better chance of thwarting a missile defense. Just what's needed to keep the U.S. neutralized when they attack Taiwan.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by X
This certainly isn't defensive, it's meant to project power throughout the world and certainly upping the stakes in defense requirements and spending for the rest of the world.
Well....we can't expect the U.S. to be the only force projecting nation forever. China, India, a revived Russia....somebody will come to prominence sooner or later.
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Old 12-03-04, 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by wabio
Well....we can't expect the U.S. to be the only force projecting nation forever. China, India, a revived Russia....somebody will come to prominence sooner or later.
The later the better.

It particularly bothers me that we're paying for this with our trade deficit with them and simultaneously putting people in this country out of work just to be able to buy more stuff a little cheaper. Wait until we have to start pouring money into the military for another Cold War and see how much money we've saved ourselves. I guess Lenin was right about the rope thing.
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Old 12-03-04, 03:34 PM
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It will be a mild "Cold War" if anything at all.
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Old 12-03-04, 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by X
The later the better.

It particularly bothers me that we're paying for this with our trade deficit with them and simultaneously putting people in this country out of work just to be able to buy more stuff a little cheaper. Wait until we have to start pouring money into the military for another Cold War and see how much money we've saved ourselves. I guess Lenin was right about the rope thing.
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