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If you support Palestinian tactics...read this story.

Old 11-27-04, 09:10 AM
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If you support Palestinian tactics...read this story.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=72669

Golani soldiers won special recognition for saving an innocent Arab child who was sent to provoke IDF soldiers into shooting him.

The two Golani soldiers recently were manning a check post near Gush Katif when a 10-year-old boy suddenly ran towards them. Despite fears that the child was carrying explosives, the soldiers did not fire.

"The child fell into the arms of one of the soldiers," said the troops’ officer. "He hugged him to make sure he was not carrying a bomb. The child apparently received a few shekels to run towards the soldiers and provoke them into shooting."

The officer awarded the soldiers a special certificate for keeping an "even head" under pressure.

Arab terrorists have sent dozens of children on life-endangering missions, including suicide bombings, and often use children to smuggle explosives and ammunition. Army officials explain that Palestinian Authority incitement in the school system and on television is one of the prime reasons for the increase in the use of children as terrorists.

A senior officer serving near Gush Katif said, "We have pictures of dozens of episodes where children fire rockets. In other instances, we have seen them used as live shields for terrorists."

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said recently that the PA must put a stop to incitement before Israel will renew negotiations. However, Sharon told outgoing U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell that Israel already plans to renew defense arrangements with the PA ahead of its upcoming elections.

Israeli defense sources report that that the PA ignores the involvement of children in provocations and arms smuggling and is not making efforts to stop incitement.
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Old 11-27-04, 09:19 AM
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To the good guys!
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Old 11-27-04, 11:25 AM
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That's awesome!

But let's also be realistic. If the soldiers had killed the kid it would've been horribly sad, but it also would've been hard to blame them. The fuckin' coward Terrorists and instigators could've strapped that kid with explosives. They put themselves at great risk by taking a chance and letting the child come at them like that.


BTW, the U.N. has released an official statement....

"It's Isreal's fault Arab Terrorists give kids money to provoke soldiers into shooting them."
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Old 11-27-04, 11:28 AM
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to these soldiers. As Robo pointed out, they ran a great risk in letting the kid get close enough to pat him down and ascertain that he wasn't wearing explosives.
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Old 11-27-04, 12:01 PM
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I think the way to defeat terrorism, is in the schools of young children, and in the minds of young children.

Unfortunately, we can't save those who have already been brainwashed, but if we can get to those schools who teach this BS, and teach the children non-hatred based classes, I do believe we could cut future terrorist attacks by about 80%. Maybe more.
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Old 11-27-04, 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
I think the way to defeat terrorism, is in the schools of young children, and in the minds of young children.

Unfortunately, we can't save those who have already been brainwashed, but if we can get to those schools who teach this BS, and teach the children non-hatred based classes, I do believe we could cut future terrorist attacks by about 80%. Maybe more.
Well, the problem being that we need teachers and parents to be on board to make this happen, and they've already been "educated" in the system. So unless we are getting rid of them, it's hard to make this work.

I agree on many levels, it's just extremely hard to make happen. We have control over bombs and troops, not school disticts and family upbringing.

It will take a turn of the will of the people to make a big difference. Starting with the children would be great since the problems start there as well.. constantly new generations of hatred. But it would take severe controls over the society to make this happen from the outside.
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Old 11-27-04, 01:42 PM
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has anyone seen the footage of palestinian sesame street yet?
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Old 11-27-04, 03:16 PM
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As others have pointed out, if they were in America, we would do the same. We would send our children out to get shot.

Wait a minute.

That line of reasoning sucks when you actually play it out. I was lied to.
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Old 11-27-04, 04:03 PM
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I'm not sure which scares me more...

1)Palestinian children being used as pawns. (According to Israeli Army officials at least. )
2)Israeli soldiers receiving an award for *not* gunning down a child for merely runing towards his position. (C'mon guys, let's aim just a little higher for those awards!)

That is one messed up conflict over there.
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Old 11-27-04, 04:11 PM
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awards only should be given out if they gun them down? You know, like in Gaza whenever some idiot decides to blow himself up.
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Old 11-27-04, 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nutter
I'm not sure which scares me more...

1)Palestinian children being used as pawns. (According to Israeli Army officials at least. )

pretty much tells the whole story
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Old 11-27-04, 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Thor Simpson
Well, the problem being that we need teachers and parents to be on board to make this happen, and they've already been "educated" in the system. So unless we are getting rid of them, it's hard to make this work.

I agree on many levels, it's just extremely hard to make happen. We have control over bombs and troops, not school disticts and family upbringing.

It will take a turn of the will of the people to make a big difference. Starting with the children would be great since the problems start there as well.. constantly new generations of hatred. But it would take severe controls over the society to make this happen from the outside.
In theory I don't disagree but saddly we're not talking about US suburbs here, we're talking about one of the poorest areas in the world where per capita income is even less than in Haiti. I'd be interested to know what % of Palestinian children actually do go to school. Heck, I'd like to know how many schools that are still standing can even operate somewhat "normally".
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Old 11-27-04, 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
As others have pointed out, if they were in America, we would do the same. We would send our children out to get shot.

Wait a minute.

That line of reasoning sucks when you actually play it out. I was lied to.
Honestly, I think we would just send squadrons of B2s to "slag" their homeland.
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Old 11-27-04, 07:34 PM
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Myster X,

Everyday is Halloween in Palestine.

eXcentris,

The Palestinians economic situation can only be blamed on the richer Middle East nations, and the Palestinian refusal to modernize. If Palestinians would start becoming a self-sufficient nation (i.e., disregarding the self-sufficiency of finding explosives for their ad nauseum suicide missions), not only would they get more respect people like me, but they could actually compete with Israel, and might even become more important.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 11-27-04 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 11-27-04, 07:46 PM
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Regardless of on whom you want to assign responsibility for the current state of the Palestinian economy and societal woes, I was simply addressing the fact that while teaching kids in school not to hate is certainly a good idea, it remains utopia considering the current reality.
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Old 11-27-04, 08:11 PM
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interesting homemade handgun

Originally posted by Myster X
pretty much tells the whole story
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Old 11-27-04, 08:18 PM
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Isn't Arutz Sheva an ultra-right-wing radio station that broadcasts from a ship off the coast of Israel because it's been banned from operating within the country? And don't they generally just make shit up? In other words, isn't "Arutz Sheva" Hebrew for "NewsMax"?
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Old 11-27-04, 09:32 PM
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Pretty much tells the complete story.

<img src="http://staff.media.utah.edu/cmei/urban/boy_gun.jpg">

<img src="http://www.geo.de/GEO/fotografie/portfolio_des_monats/2003_03_portfolio_kapitza/06.jpg">

<img src="http://www.websophist.com/Guns_KidsO.jpg">

<img src="http://www.burchell4x4.co.za/ChildrenWithGuns.jpg">

<img src="http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/71_folder/71_photos/71_125tiny.jpg">

<img src="http://www.promised.com/3rdseason/kid-with-gun-sm.jpg">


<img src="http://www.affenkrieger.de/images/random/monkey_gun.jpg">


<img src="http://orange_drink.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/keypic1.jpg">
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Old 11-28-04, 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by dork
Isn't Arutz Sheva an ultra-right-wing radio station that broadcasts from a ship off the coast of Israel because it's been banned from operating within the country? And don't they generally just make shit up? In other words, isn't "Arutz Sheva" Hebrew for "NewsMax"?
Arutz is known for their rather direct and pointed opinions on the Palestinians and anything related (they are against the pullout from Gaza and against a Palestinian state). Their stories are no more exaggerated or filtered than those in the US, and certainly less than those in Arab and Muslim nations.

Arutz makes it very clear they don't appreciate Bush and Powell telling them how to run their country, and that the Saudi Prince has an interest in US affairs regarding Israel. Arutz also reports many times on the Palestinian terrorists using children as weapons, and how the world (especially the UN and media) portray the IDF as babykillers.

Arutz is above your literary equivalent of The Enquirer Magazine, if that's what you mean?

I've read dozens of stories on their website which were fact, and anything should be read with some idea of where it's coming from, and what is most likely possible.

As to why Arutz was targeted by the Israeli government, this goes back to Arutz's refusal for a Golan Heights retreat, and a refusal to give any Israeli land to Palestinians. For example, Barak wanted to shut it down because it would look good when there were talks with Syria--one particular raid happened the very night the talks were underway.

Arutz was constently raided by the Israeli government, and the radio equipment was always taken or damaged on purpose by police, so Arutz decided they would go to a ship-based radio station, where they had a chance of broadcasting their message from international waters, and without the fear their equipment would be destroyed.

Unlicensed radio stations was a way to deny access to those the Israeli government didn't like. Prison terms were also made law so that anyone would probably not want to transmit on the airwaves, unless they wanted to be placed in prison for a while.

In 1999, the Knesset voted 40-30 to make Arutz legal, but Barak overruled it.

Israel does this kind of behavior because they are governed by Bush and Powell's "Palestinian State" plan--this is major money we're talking here. Israel has been quite effective at silencing many counter-arguments or mass public debates on having an anti-Palestinian state, and being against retreating from Golan, and even the recent Gaza pullout.
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Old 11-28-04, 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by Thor Simpson



<img src="http://www.affenkrieger.de/images/random/monkey_gun.jpg">


Those sick bastards. If only that monkey had gotten regular schooling, like all the other kids.
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Old 11-28-04, 01:51 PM
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First of all, (if the story IS true) no one here supports this kind of tactic.

Second of all, there is a HUGE difference between sympathy for someone's situation, and support for what they do. I sympathize with the crappy life that would lead someone to drug or alcohol abuse. However, I do not support the abuse of such substances, nor the cheating, lying, and stealing involved to obtain such substances.

I would ALSO not support the government kicking drug abusers out of their homes, using their substance abuse problems as a reason for why they deserve to be kicked out.

And no, for the denser of you out there, I am not equating drug abusers with Palestinians. I am making the point that sympathy for a people does not mean you support every action they make. Nor does every action symbolize the people as a whole.
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Old 11-28-04, 08:52 PM
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We need a 5 step recovery program for Palestinianism.
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Old 11-28-04, 09:06 PM
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hahn,

How can you sympathize with a crappy life of a drug user, when it's the drug user's own actions that lead them to their position in the first place. I suppose you sympathize with a drug user, who's home blew up because he and a bunch of skank-ass women had a meth lab going on?

Personally, I would favor a drug user's home being sold to a family who did not use drugs. It's better for society.

I don't have any sympathy for drug users, never saw the reason to have such sympathy because I use it for people who actually want to change their life, and I don't have any sympathy for Palestinian terrorists who use children as bait, suicide bombers, or human shields, regardless of their economic and political situation.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 11-28-04 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 11-28-04, 09:19 PM
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Speaking of drugs...

An analogy could be made with the blowing up of Palestinian terrorists' houses and the practice in the U.S. of evicting families from public housing projects when someone in that family is found to have been dealing drugs.
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Old 11-29-04, 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
hahn,

How can you sympathize with a crappy life of a drug user, when it's the drug user's own actions that lead them to their position in the first place. I suppose you sympathize with a drug user, who's home blew up because he and a bunch of skank-ass women had a meth lab going on?

Personally, I would favor a drug user's home being sold to a family who did not use drugs. It's better for society.

I don't have any sympathy for drug users, never saw the reason to have such sympathy because I use it for people who actually want to change their life, and I don't have any sympathy for Palestinian terrorists who use children as bait, suicide bombers, or human shields, regardless of their economic and political situation.
Well, I worked with drug abusers for two years while in grad school. I guess it didn't occur to you that some of them simply had some REALLY shitty things happen to them. It's easy to point fingers when you haven't been through the same things. Yes, some people are able to pull themselves up and muscle through it. But not everyone can. One big factor is having friends or family who you can rely on. I'm sure you know this, but there are a LOT of assholes out there. So some of them have no one to help or support them.

Now, I'll admit, some of them just aren't trying hard enough. But unless I can make that determination, as a group, I DO sympathize with them by default. And maybe some of them are hopeless and they will never recover. But if I scorned them, it certainly wouldn't help. My sympathy may not help. But then again, it just might too.

You don't have to do anything to help them or support them if you don't want. Obviously you don't. But someone's drug abuse problem by itself shouldn't be sufficient for your scorn. I've met some REALLY good people who were addicted. I'd like to believe there are more people than not out there who are pulling for them.

Last edited by hahn; 11-29-04 at 02:06 AM.
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