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Bush In Ottawa - Nov. 30th-Dec. 1st

Old 11-27-04, 01:21 AM
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Bush In Ottawa - Nov. 30th-Dec. 1st

Today at my place of business, located pretty much in the heart of Ottawa, we found stuck to our door this letter:

<c><B>IMPORTANT
TIME SENSITIVE-PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY!

PRESIDENT BUSH VISIT
November 30th to December 1st, 2004</c></B>

<b>What's Going On?</b>
The Canadian Government is hosting The President of the United States and his delegation in Ottawa.

<b>What Kind of Prostest?</b>
Unfortunately, it is difficult to say. The Police are gathering information, but it changes on an almost daily basis as to what risk, if any, there is. No doubt there will be protests / demonstrations in Ottawa. We believe it is resonable to assume that protests / marches will take place on portions of Bank Street. Even though these protests are being touted by organizers as peaceful, direct action by demonstrators or damage to private property is well within the realm of possibility.

<b>What Measures Are Being Taken?</b>
Throughout the meetings, you will see more police officers in the area and you may see Ottawa Police walking the beat paired with officers from other jurisdictions in Ontario.

<b>PLEAE BE ADVISED:</b> Due to the proximity of Bank Street BIA to the parliamentary precinct and the fact that Bank Street is used as a major demonstration route, we believe that it is prudent, reasonable and appropriate that we implement certain precautions. Therefore, we will be undertaking the following measures;

*Removal or securing of all street furniture including trash receptacles, bicycle racks and benche.
*Strongly recommending the removal or securing of other street fixtures such as newspaper and other vending boxes, recycling containers, postal boxes and the like...

<b>WHAT SHOULD YOU DO?</b>
You should remain vigilant and should you notice anything out of the ordinary such as individuals massing for demonstrations, please call the Police at 911 if there is an emergency. Furthermore, you might also want to consider refraining from placing out any and all signage, A-frames, Display cases, Clothing racks and or Clothing, and Merchandise on the sidewalk or directly outside your business during the visit dates.
My first thought upon reading this was to find the letter rather disturbing on how it seems to expect some riot to take place. That was on one hand. On the other it is nice to see precautions are being made.

Upon showing the letter to a co-worker said worker uttered: "Do these protesters realize that they do NOT live in the US? The US does not effect us and we should leave the protesting to the people who actually live in the country they are protesting!"

So, this is a three pronged thread:

1) To post updates in about Bush's visit to Ottawa, reports and such from the day, etc.

2) What are your thoughts on the precautions being made here in the Capital for Bush's visit?

3) Do you agree and disagree with my co-workers stance on protesting? Why?
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Old 11-27-04, 01:34 AM
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The statement: "The US does not effect us..." is just stupid. Of course it does. But I seriously don't know what a protest by a bunch of Canadians is going to affect in terms of change. I'm sure the US Govt is really worried. But I will add that Bush isn't addressing parliament for fears of being booed. Which would most certainly happen. So I guess they're at least worried about appearance.

As for the precautions, I think they're very wise.

I think it's really sad that this is Bush's first visit up here.
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Old 11-27-04, 02:40 AM
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Agree with Soli. Of course our actions affect Canada. Economically, our actions affect much of the world. Certainly our foreign policy and wars affect a lot of the world. And you can argue that our (lack of) environmental actions affect every nation on Earth.

"Street furniture"? But yes, it's prudent and I agree with their actions. They should take every precaution and have as many police on hand as it takes to keep the demonstrations peaceful.

Has any U.S. official addressed parliament before? Who? Were they booed or heckled? I think that's how our Congress should be. It sure would make C-SPAN much more entertaining!
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Old 11-27-04, 02:54 AM
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Has any U.S. official addressed parliament before?
I think Bush addressed the parliament in Australia; two members booed and were appropiately kicked out.

Austin Powers/ Behave, you crazy Canadians.
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Old 11-27-04, 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by DarkElf

Has any U.S. official addressed parliament before? Who? Were they booed or heckled?
Yep. Reagan was heckled by the semi-famous Member of Parliament, Svend Robinson when Reagan was President. Not sure of the exact year (87?). He joked it off, said something like, "Is there an echo in here?"

Clinton, I'm pretty sure, addressed Parliament to no ill effect.


Originally posted by solipsta
The statement: "The US does not effect us..." is just stupid. Of course it does. But I seriously don't know what a protest by a bunch of Canadians is going to affect in terms of change. I'm sure the US Govt is really worried.
Well, it'll show a measure of displeasure with American policy that Martin might see, missile defense, for example. Bush has seen so many protests, and it doesn't seem to affect him. I don't know that it's so much that Canada protests, but being nagged by protests wherever he goes, it must have some effect unless (a) W is above all that; or (b) it makes him stand his ground even harder. It doesn't seem to make him reconsider....

For the record, precautions are generally wise. They're just precautions after all, not reasons for panic.
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Old 11-27-04, 06:07 PM
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Note that priors to such "events", it's commonplace for leaders of groups doing the protesting to meet with the police and go over security measures as well as do's and don't(s). Several groups refused to do so in this particular case which could be a fair indication that there will indeed be trouble.

Last edited by eXcentris; 11-27-04 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 11-27-04, 06:10 PM
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Bush can go pretty much anywhere in the world, and I'm sure there will be protests. Being a world superpower does not come easy.
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Old 11-27-04, 08:47 PM
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Bush is a superpower? Which one? too bad he isn't "Invisibility" because then he could hide from the protesters!

The protesters are protesting because they are (in theory) trying to show our goverment that they don't aprove of Bush's policys that could effect our country (such as missle defense, trade rules... the fact that US officals have warned us that if we decriminalize pot that there could be repercusions... whatever.) They don't want our Prime Minister to go along with it. So I don't see the problem with them protesting, that is their right, and it does have some logic to it.

No doubt though, there will be some crazys there who will be protesting US domestic issues... which I would find just silly.

I'm not working tuesday, but I am Wednesday. I work at the airport and we're going to be locked down for the period when he arrives and when he leaves. He won't, of course, be coming through the same place as everyone else, he'll be in a different hanger and stuff, but the runways and air traffic control and all that will be the same, I guess.
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Old 11-27-04, 09:35 PM
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Okay, that's twice someone have brought up missile defense. I don't understand the ruckus over that. Okay, there's the possiblity of an arms race, but how does that affect Canada? Also, IIRC, the bases are near Alaska and California, so I'd think the missile defense shield would only be protecting the American west coast.
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Old 11-27-04, 09:36 PM
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affect affect affect
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Old 11-27-04, 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by Thor Simpson
affect affect affect
Affect! Affect! Affect!

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Old 11-27-04, 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Ranger
Okay, that's twice someone have brought up missile defense. I don't understand the ruckus over that. Okay, there's the possiblity of an arms race, but how does that affect Canada? Also, IIRC, the bases are near Alaska and California, so I'd think the missile defense shield would only be protecting the American west coast.
From what I understand the fear these people have is that the Canadian goverment would put money into this idea, help share the cost and benifit from the program. Or something.

I only mentioned it because someone else did
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Old 11-28-04, 01:46 AM
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The majority of the protesting will be over Iraq. You'll find a smattering of people protesting the missile defense and some trade issues (softwood lumber and beef) but those aren't big enough in the media, IMO. The war is obviously the big ticket item.

And I think another issue people have with the missile defense is that people are afraid that if we join in it, we'll be handing over at least a little slice of our sovernity in that it's effectively handing over defense of our country.
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Old 11-28-04, 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by solipsta

And I think another issue people have with the missile defense is that people are afraid that if we join in it, we'll be handing over at least a little slice of our sovernity in that it's effectively handing over defense of our country.
Problem here is that we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we say we won't participate, the US will go ahead with it anyway and we'll be left in the dark about a program that might affect us one way or another. If we say we will participate, we'll have to contribute $$$ and I guess (some) expertise and we'll still have very limited say in the matter, but at least we won't be left completely in the dark.

What I find odd is that the same people that are quick to jump on the "bad science" behind Kyoto seem to completely ignore it when it comes to missile defense. There are plenty of scientists who agree that this will never work except in the feel-good department.
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Old 11-30-04, 12:18 PM
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There are plenty of scientists who agree that this will never work except in the feel-good department.
Are those the same scientists who recommended unilateral disarmament during the Cold War? Or were they the ones that said SDI wouldn't work(it worked better than anyone expected at causing the downfall of the "Evil Empire")?
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Old 11-30-04, 01:16 PM
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I did not know Canada had 911. I just assumed everyone carried a hollowed-out horn to call for help.
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Old 11-30-04, 10:49 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...canada_us_bush
Early anti-Bush demos fizzle in Canada

The first demonstration -- of Palestinians and sympathisers of the Palestinian cause opposed to Washington's support of Israel -- attracted less than 40 demonstrators.

According to a quick head count by journalists, the protest attracted 39 demonstrators, 42 journalists and television crew members and three police officers.

A second, ostensibly larger, demonstration scheduled for the midst of the evening rush hour -- was called by a group calling itself Students Against Bush.

Nobody turned up.....
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Old 11-30-04, 10:56 PM
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Of course the above poster fails to mention the THOUSANDS who did turn up from all across Canada, busloads from various parts of Ontario and Quebec or those who came from some border states. I was at both rallys today and the attendence was amazing. As I write this the rally from The Hill marched over to Hull where Bush was dining to give him a proper welcome. So, yeah, it wasn't a ghost town as the above article appears to be stating. People "turned up" and they were loud.

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Old 11-30-04, 10:56 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/30/bus....ap/index.html

OTTAWA, Canada (AP) -- Holding up signs calling U.S. President George W. Bush a "war criminal" and "liar," a few thousand demonstrators rallied in the Canadian capital Tuesday to protest his visit, the U.S.-led war in Iraq and a host of other issues.

Organizers said about 5,000 people, many of whom rode buses overnight from across Ontario and Quebec, held a rally at Ottawa's City Hall before a planned march on Canada's Parliament buildings. Police put the figure at between 2,500 to 3,000.
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Old 11-30-04, 10:57 PM
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That's really sad.
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Old 11-30-04, 11:00 PM
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Yeah, that's more like it.
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Old 11-30-04, 11:18 PM
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Of course the above poster fails to mention the THOUSANDS
From the CNN article, I see twenty five HUNDRED.

Also from the CNN article:
Gathered at the City Hall rally, Lawrence Wueft, a 60-year-old sculptor from the eastern province of New Brunswick held up a banner made from a bed sheet that read: "Bush, go home. Keep your bloody hands off Canada."
Mr. Loser artist, I'm sure going back home is part of the plan.

Last edited by bhk; 11-30-04 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 12-01-04, 12:52 AM
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The Ottawa rally was one of about 25 planned across the country to draw attention to Bush's policies and politics during the visit.

Many of the Ottawa protesters were opposed to Bush's plans for a North American missile shield system that would require Canadian participation.

Also present were activists in favour of legalized marijuana, same-sex marriages, and a woman's right to choose, as well as students, grandmothers and groups ranging from Lawyers Against the War to Bellydancers Against Bush.
......

All estimates I've seen in the news put the largest demonstration at around 5,000 people.
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Old 12-01-04, 01:09 AM
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more journalists than protesters?
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Old 12-01-04, 01:50 AM
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And did you guys hear Bush's response to the protests? Some may find fault, but not me. I laughed my fricking ass off.

"...I want to thank the Canadian people who came out to wave -- with all 5 fingers..."

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