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Wacko officials in San Francisco are at it again... tax on grocery plastic bags

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Wacko officials in San Francisco are at it again... tax on grocery plastic bags

Old 11-23-04, 01:54 PM
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Wacko officials in San Francisco are at it again... tax on grocery plastic bags

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ry-sacks_x.htm

Grocery bags may be charged in San Francisco to cut waste

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ó City officials are considering charging grocery stores 17 cents each for grocery bags to discourage use of plastic sacks.

More than 90% of consumers choose plastic bags, which are blamed for everything from clogging recycling machines to killing marine life and suffocating infants. But the fee would also apply to paper bags to help reduce overall waste.

Promoting a healthy environment "means we need to help change people's patterns, and that even means their shopping patterns," said incoming city Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi, who takes office in January. "This is a sensible user fee."

The city's Commission on the Environment will consider the proposal Tuesday. Mayor Gavin Newsom is reviewing the idea.

The city's Department of the Environment estimates San Francisco customers bring home about 50 million bags each year. That accounts for about 2% of waste, at an annual cleanup cost of about $8.4 million.

Grocers and the plastics industry oppose the measure.

"We think essentially it's an unnecessary and misguided approach," said Tim Shestek, spokesman for the American Plastics Council. "This tax is going to hurt those who can least afford it."

State legislators defeated a bill last year that would have charged 2 cents on each non-recyclable disposable bag.

The San Francisco proposal parallels efforts in Ireland, South Africa, Bangladesh, Australia, Shanghai and Taiwan, which ban plastic bags or charge a fee to use them.
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Old 11-23-04, 01:57 PM
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people could easily use reusable cloth bags that would be stronger than plastic or paper.

i guess i can't really complain since i don't use them. but i think that'd be a good idea
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Old 11-23-04, 01:58 PM
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This is .

I can only guess that they'll love this in Madison.
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Old 11-23-04, 01:58 PM
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Yeah, I heard about this last week. I hate plastic bags and wouldn't mind seeing them go but people should have the choice. I'd rather see people educated about them.

This could be interesting because those plastic bags are one of the most important items the homeless use.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:00 PM
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People are still surprised that libs want to tax every possible thing?
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Old 11-23-04, 02:02 PM
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I wonder what proposals they would have to change our "shopping patterns". I hate going to the grocery store...so there is no way I would go every night just to purchase what I need for dinner that night.

The reusable cloth bags is a good idea but I would need about six of them.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by bhk
People are still surprised that libs want to tax every possible thing?
Do you ever get tired of the partisan bullshit? Just wondering.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:06 PM
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yeah, i would need a bunch of them too since i only go every few weeks.

I would guess the stores would have promotions and give them out at first. lots of companies give out cloth bags at conventions, it'd be similar to that.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Venusian
yeah, i would need a bunch of them too since i only go every few weeks.

I would guess the stores would have promotions and give them out at first. lots of companies give out cloth bags at conventions, it'd be similar to that.
I would definitely be willing to use them.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by movielib
This is .
Why?
City officials are considering charging grocery stores 17 cents each for grocery bags to discourage use of plastic sacks.

...

The city's Department of the Environment estimates San Francisco customers bring home about 50 million bags each year. That accounts for about 2% of waste, at an annual cleanup cost of about $8.4 million.
I thought that as a libertarian, you would appreciate imposing the costs of plastic bags on their users instead of paying for the associated costs out of general tax revenues.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by LiquidSky
Do you ever get tired of the partisan bullshit? Just wondering.
Do you see the GOP attempting to start new stupid little taxes like this? (I'm taking a huge leap of faith that the SF city council leans slightly to the left-of-center)



I'm waiting ...




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Old 11-23-04, 02:16 PM
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Do you ever get tired of the partisan bullshit? Just wondering.
Nothing partisan about what I posted, merely the truth.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
Why?

I thought that as a libertarian, you would appreciate imposing the costs of plastic bags on their users instead of paying for the associated costs out of general tax revenues.
Since you asked, in my world, trash collection and disposal would all be run by competing private companies (much of it is already). Separation of garbage and state! If the disposal people wanted to get together with the grocery people and have a "pay 17 cents for your bags and get a discount on your garbage collection fees" program I'd have no problem.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
I thought that as a libertarian, you would appreciate imposing the costs of plastic bags on their users instead of paying for the associated costs out of general tax revenues.
Aren't the people throwing the bags in the garbage creating the cost? Perhaps their garbage bills should be raised.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by X
Aren't the people throwing the bags in the garbage creating the cost? Perhaps their garbage bills should be raised.
It's not really feasible to figure out who's throwing their plastic bags away and who isn't, so you use the next best proxy -- who's buying a plastic bag and who isn't.

movielib's privatization plan wouldn't solve that problem either, since when you got your garbage collection bills, the non-throw-away-plastic-bag people would be subsidizing the throw-away-plastic-bag people. Unless, of course, as he points out, the garbage collection company figures out a way to charge people when they buy their groceries instead of when they throw the bags away.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
It's not really feasible to figure out who's throwing their plastic bags away and who isn't, so you use the next best proxy -- who's buying a plastic bag and who isn't.
I disagree.

My county has mandated our garbage be separated into what's recyclable and what isn't or our garbage rates will go way up. The citizens have exceeded the goals and around 70% of our garbage now goes into recycling instead of the dump.

If we were just charged more for the recyclable items (and we are, such as bottles) we'd keep using them but then just dump them in with the rest of the trash.
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Old 11-23-04, 02:44 PM
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I believe that the biggest problem with this tax is that the plastic bags *are* biodegradable. They started doing this in the late 80s the last time the greenies made a fuss. The black Hefty bags are the same way too. Yes, it may take a year to decompose, but then again, you don't want to go shopping using Darkman bags "Shit, it's been an hour!!!"
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Old 11-23-04, 03:21 PM
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This is just stupid. The Safeway and Albertsonís I go to have Bins out in the front of each store for you to return your old bags for recycling. I do that and I also use some of the bags for garbage. These bags also biodegrade faster and better than the normal Glad plastic garbage bags. If they want to start taxing people for a bag, you might as well just leave them in the street when youíre done with them.

My problem with cloth bags is sterilization. A cloth bag will become contaminated with juices from raw meat and could cross contaminate your other fruits and veggies on your next purchase. I go to the store about every other day, call me lazy but Iím not going to be running my bags through the washing machines everyday.

Last edited by Tazwolff; 11-23-04 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 11-23-04, 03:48 PM
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This gets a big from me.
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Old 11-23-04, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
It's not really feasible to figure out who's throwing their plastic bags away and who isn't, so you use the next best proxy -- who's buying a plastic bag and who isn't.

movielib's privatization plan wouldn't solve that problem either, since when you got your garbage collection bills, the non-throw-away-plastic-bag people would be subsidizing the throw-away-plastic-bag people. Unless, of course, as he points out, the garbage collection company figures out a way to charge people when they buy their groceries instead of when they throw the bags away.
Why do you need to know what type of garbage people are throwing out? Your garbage bill is based on the amount of garbage you throw out "." It doesn't matter if it's grocery bags or old tie-dye shirts and leftover tofurkey.
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Old 11-23-04, 04:13 PM
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This is so stupid. Ahhhhh, California.

It would not change my pattern at all. In fact, I would probably be in the check out line and announce, "Plastic bags for everyone....ON ME!!!!". Lot of places give you some discount if you have your own bag. The reason people don't tend to know about it is because it is a stupid idea.

Does SF ever think about actually letting the people vote on their asinine ideas?
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Old 11-23-04, 04:15 PM
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Why stop there?
Start taxing

1. styrofoam cups
2. plastic forks, spoons, knives
3. plastic lids for cup
4. glass containers
5. aluminum containers
6. saran wrap
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Old 11-23-04, 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Myster X
Why stop there?
Start taxing

1. styrofoam cups
2. plastic forks, spoons, knives
3. plastic lids for cup
4. glass containers
5. aluminum foil helmets
6. saran wrap
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Old 11-23-04, 04:27 PM
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What will people pick up dog poopoo with?
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Old 11-23-04, 04:29 PM
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http://www.townhall.com/columnists/d...20020403.shtml

California State Sen. Don Perata wants to tax bullets -- at a rate of five cents per round -- and he plans to ask the state legislature to put a bullet tax on the November ballot.

"Bullets cause injuries that are expensive to treat, and generally speaking, the public is footing the bill," Perata told KTVU last week. He added that a bullet tax -- with the revenue going to California's trauma centers, since they treat gun wounds -- makes as much sense as the 50-cent-per-pack cigarette tax that sends money to health care and anti-smoking education.

Great idea. So, as long as we're calling for new taxes on things we don't like under the pretense that the tax makes sense because of government costs incurred by a minority of practitioners, why stop there?

Let's levy a new health-care tax on cars because, according to the Centers for Disease Control, cars injure more kids than guns.

Let's tax fashion magazines because they contribute to anorexia, which drives up health costs.

Let's tax potato-chip makers for contributing to obesity, which also increases health-care costs.

Let's tax movies that show movie stars smoking, thus encouraging teen-agers to smoke, because teen-agers can grow into old farts who get cancer and drive up Medicare costs.

Ditto movies with sex scenes -- which can contribute to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

Let's tax gay bars and bathhouses because drinking and mingling can lead to the transmission of HIV and other STDs.

For that matter, let's tax singles bars for heterosexuals, too.

Let's tax chaise longues because sitting on them can contribute to skin cancer.

Let's tax swimming pools because drowning is the second-leading cause of accidental death for children under age 14.

Let's tax all religions with clergy who molested children.

Let's tax TV. Tax it two ways. First, put a tax on all TV sets because watching too much television can be bad for children's school performance. Then, take the study that showed that 28.8 percent of kids who watched three or more hours of TV a day committed "aggressive acts" -- versus 5.7 percent of kids who watched an hour of TV or less, and legislate a cable tax that is commensurately larger based on how many channels consumers buy.

Let's raise bridge tolls at night because teen-agers are more likely to die in nighttime crashes.

Let's tax gambling to pay for anti-gambling education.

Let's tax fast-food to pay for public service announcements that nag junk-food eaters and tell them that they're fat.

Let's tax fast-food to fund a tax credit for yogurt, fruits and vegetables so that people will eat more healthy foods.

Let's tax cell phones because they can cause car accidents.

Add a tax for billboards, car radios, other dashboard controls and take-out food because the American Automobile Association found that outside distractions, switching radio and other dashboard controls, and eating or drinking caused more accidents than cell-phone distraction.

Let's tax men because men are more likely to commit crimes that land them in prison.

Let's tax motorized scooters because we don't own one and they look like they'll cause accidents.

Tax ski resorts and bicycles because they put people in trauma centers, too.

Give a tax rebate for people who buy ski helmets and bike helmets.

Let's tax churches that hurt gay people's feelings -- which, do-gooders say, leads to suicide.

Let's tax dogs and cats so that the law-abiding folks who pay to register and neuter their pets can pay for a tax that never will be paid by less responsible pet owners who don't register or neuter their pets.

Let's tax everyone who does things we don't like because they should be more like us.

Let's tax bills proposed by busybody politicians who feel it's their job to single out activities they don't like for extra taxation.

Better yet, let's not vote for them.
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