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French Shoot Down Ivory Coast Warplanes

Old 11-06-04, 11:23 AM
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French Shoot Down Ivory Coast Warplanes

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=515&ncid=716


ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast - French peacekeepers shot down two Ivory Coast warplanes and a military helicopter Saturday after the aircraft bombed their position, killing a French soldier and wounding 20 others, a U.N. military spokesman said.

The clash threatened to bring a serious escalation in Ivory Coast's renewed civil war and to drag in French and U.N. peacekeeping forces, some of whom are deployed in a buffer zone dividing the government-held south and the rebel-controlled north.

The strike was the latest government bombing run since hard-line Ivory Coast army commanders broke a more than year-old cease-fire on Thursday, launching launched airstrikes on rebel positions in the north.

At 1:30 p.m., the warplanes struck French positions at Brobo, near the rebel-held town of Bouake, U.N. military spokesman Philippe Moreux said. "As a response, the French shot down two Sukhoi 25s and one MI-24 helicopter," Moreux said.

A U.N. civilian spokesman, Jean Victor Nkolo, said one French soldier was killed and 20 other French soldiers were injured.

Col. Gerard Dubois, a French military spokesman in Paris, confirmed that two Sukhoi 25 aircraft had opened attack on French positions. French troops shot down the planes. There were "several victims" among the French forces, Dubois said, adding that it was too early for the French to establish a complete tally of dead or injured.

France and the United Nations (news - web sites) have about 10,000 peacekeepers in Ivory Coast, a former French colony.

Ivory Coast military commanders have vowed to retake the north, held by rebels since the September 2002 start of the war in the world's top cocoa producer.

A U.N. military spokesman said the 6,200-strong U.N. force in Ivory Coast lacked the manpower to guard all routes into the rebel north. "It's not impossible for the forces to go around our post" to reach rebel strongholds, spokesman Philippe Moreux said. "We are only on the main road."

There were no immediate reports of new clashes on the ground Saturday.

Fearing a spread of the fighting, the France-based relief group Medecins Sans Frontieres, or Doctors Without Border, said Saturday it was evacuating some staff from its hospital in the western town of Danane, about 20 miles from Ivory Coast's border with Liberia (news - web sites). The west saw some of the most brutal attacks of the war.

"We are very worried," the aid group's spokeswoman Vanessa van Schoor said. "We really hope that the hospital will not be attacked. We still have patients inside. The population of Danane has suffered a great deal already" in the war.

Van Schoor said the hospital would remain functioning. She declined to say how many staffers were being brought out or where they were being taken.

Ivory Coast's war killed thousands and uprooted more than 1 million, threatening efforts by neighboring countries Sierra Leone and Liberia to recover from their own vicious civil wars of the 1990s.

Last year's peace deals, brokered under international pressure, ended major fighting but an agreed-upon power-sharing government has never taken hold.

The U.N. Security Council which has poured billions of dollars and thousands of peace troops into West and Central Africa to support peace accords expressed alarm at the renewed fighting, as have France, the United States and others.

Nigerian President Olosegun Obasanjo, current president of the African Union, opened talks with regional leaders Saturday at his farm on the outskirts of Nigeria's commercial capital, Lagos, to look for a way out of the crisis.

Senior African Union officials were among those attending. Remi Oyo, Obasanjo's spokeswoman, declined to say if Ivory Coast government or rebel representatives would take part.









How many warplanes could Ivory Coast possibly have?

Anyone know the history behind the civil war?


btw, can we have a civil thread without french bashing?
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Old 11-06-04, 11:44 AM
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Old 11-06-04, 11:47 AM
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I think the french commander needs to clean out his ears. I know I'm not fluent, but I'm pretty sure "Wave the White Flag" does not sound like "Shoot them down!"

-pedagogue
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Old 11-06-04, 11:53 AM
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I found lots of info on the ivory coast conflict here. Way too much info to summarize. Hope it helps.
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Old 11-06-04, 11:54 AM
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heh. google gave me the same link. i read through some of it. it sounds like a struggle for power between different people and not really much else. they need to get over it
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Old 11-06-04, 11:58 AM
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Hey, they didn't retreat!
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Old 11-06-04, 11:58 AM
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^
It also sucks that they were launching "launched" attacks.

Okay, now on topic, because France is a very small part of this. This is a pretty war-torn part of the world and this stuff really sucks, especially considering all that has gone on in Sierra Leone and Liberia. I have to admit that I don't really understand the situation too deply, other than it being a struggle for power where people are routinely killed on a massive scale.

My brother volunteered in Sierra Leone for quite a while so I'm sure he has a better perspective on all of this than I do. All I know is that it's one of the most beautiful parts of the world facing some of the most tragic circumstances, largely deserved by those who take up arms and claiming the lives of countless others.

It's very much a pure power struggle with people looking after their self-interests and placing little value on human life. It's a warring culture that has been developed with the help of Western weapons and failed intervention.

I'd like to understand it better, since I'm obviously affected by my Euro-white culture here and am open to correction. I'll check out that link.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:07 PM
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8 French Soldiers Killed in Ivory Coast

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...af/ivory_coast

ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast - Warplanes bombed French peacekeepers Saturday, killing eight French soldiers and an American, officials said, prompting a French counterstrike in a standoff that threatened to escalate Ivory Coast's renewed civil war.

After the French retaliation, pro-government mobs tried to storm a French military base near in the country's commercial center, Abidjan, witnesses said. French troops fired in the air and lobbed tear gas at the crowd.

The violence threatened to drag French and U.N. peacekeepers into the civil war that hard-line military commanders re-launched on Thursday, launching airstrikes on rebel-held positions in the north and breaking a cease-fire that had held for more than a year.

France sent three Mirage fighter jets to West Africa in response, and French President Jacques Chirac said he orderd the deployment of two more military companies to Ivory Coast.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:14 PM
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This sounds like Chirac's Vietnam...
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Old 11-06-04, 03:12 PM
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How the fuck do you let Ivory Coast bomb your ass?
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Old 11-06-04, 04:42 PM
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They better not expect any help from us (U.S.A.).
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Old 11-06-04, 06:04 PM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=515&ncid=716


getting worse
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Old 11-06-04, 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by SuprVgeta
They better not expect any help from us (U.S.A.).
Well, I doubt we'd help unless the U.N. was brought in on it. Hmmm... kinda like France.

I guess the difference is, we wouldn't say we were going to veto any action here. Of course... there are no inspections necessary either.
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Old 11-06-04, 06:22 PM
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Is it any wonder a third-word country doesn't think France has the balls to protect its own people
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=515&ncid=716

French Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said Gbagbo would be "held personally responsible by the international community for (maintaining) the public order in Abidjan."

She said French President Jacques Chirac phoned Gbagbo earlier this week to warn him against heightening the conflict.

"Visibly, he (Gbagbo) didn't take that into account," she said.
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Old 11-06-04, 06:38 PM
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I see two major differences between this conflict and U.S. vs. Iraq.

1. Ivory Coast actually had warplanes. (Iraq hasn't had any since the first gulf war)
2. The Ivory Coast attacked France *first*.

Enjoy the frog-roast boys, but don't look in your own backyard first.
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Old 11-06-04, 06:44 PM
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Guess who helped protecting and evacuating American expatriates when troubles in the Ivory Coast first started... You guys have a short memory.

The French bashing on this forum has become mindboggingly moronic. Note that this comes mostly from those who get their panties in a wad when someone calls Bush an idiot.
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Old 11-06-04, 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Enjoy the frog-roast boys, but don't look in your own backyard first.
If there are any in our backyard, we'll roast them too.
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Old 11-06-04, 07:25 PM
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One of my hobbies is African Strongmen. The French have a long, and ongoing, tradition of involvement in central Africa. That area is actually called Francophone Africa: French is the official language of many countries and many were French puppet states. The French do nice things like evacuate civilians from [insert African nut-case of a country here]. The French also go absolutly ape-shit if one of these countries starts leaning towads another sphere on influence. The French consider that part of Africa the same way the US considered most of the Western Hemisphere: hands off, our playground.

For example, during the Rwandian genocide the French opposed (sometimes in a very real military way) the RPF, the (good guy)rebel group that eventually took over the country and stopped the genocide. You see, the RPFs leader was english educated.

The French armed forces have done some pretty amazing things for innocent people in Africa cought up in "this severed thumb makes me invincible/invisible" madness. They've also done some pretty horrendous things.
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Old 11-06-04, 07:43 PM
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Actually, the French appear to have shot up the warplanes rather than shot down the airplanes. They were on the ground at the airport after the bomb attack (that's if they shot up the correct airplanes)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html
Saturday's violence began when government warplanes struck French positions at Brobo, near the northern rebel-held town of Bouake, in the afternoon, U.N. military spokesman Philippe Moreux said.

Eight French soldiers were killed and 23 others wounded, said Defense Ministry spokesman Jean-Francois Bureau in Paris. An American citizen was also killed in the raid, the French presidency said, without providing details.

A ninth French soldier died of his wounds, said France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Marc de La Sabliere before the emergency council meeting. Council diplomats said the American who was killed was believed to have worked for a non-governmental organization and been at the French base.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Ergibe Boyd in Abidjan said they've been told of the death by the French but haven't confirmed it. She said the American was likely a missionary, since there is no U.S. military or diplomatic presence in the area.

In response to the strike, French infantry destroyed the Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jets on the ground at an airport in Yamoussoukro, 75 miles to the south, French military spokesman Col. Henry Aussavy said. The jets were believed to be the ones that carried out the strike.
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Old 11-06-04, 08:01 PM
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Old 11-06-04, 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by gcbrowni

For example, during the Rwandian genocide the French opposed (sometimes in a very real military way) the RPF, the (good guy)rebel group that eventually took over the country and stopped the genocide. You see, the RPFs leader was english educated.
The report (1,800 pages) of the French Parliementary Commission on Rwanda failed to prove that there was direct military intervention of French forces against the RPF. But they did support Rwanda's government and it's armed forces. However the report concluded that the French involvment was "at the limit of direct engagement" since they provided operational support, formation of commando units and participated in identity control checks.

The French didn't want a government with which they had a military cooperation agreement toppled by force. They hoped to be able to lead the current government into peace and democracy. Especially since despite having some legitimate grievances, there was absolutely no indication that the RPF coming to power would lead to peace and democracy. The French strategy was to keep a certain equilibrium between government forces and RPF rebel forces. Except that they grossly underestimated how racist and totalitarian the current regime was. After that well, the French forces left (but still left some technical advisors) 3 months before the genocide started because the UN had taken over.



The French armed forces have done some pretty amazing things for innocent people in Africa cought up in "this severed thumb makes me invincible/invisible" madness. They've also done some pretty horrendous things.
I agree.
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Old 11-06-04, 09:00 PM
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It's so rare these days to fight an enemy of the western world that actually has airplanes! it's kind of cool!
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Old 11-06-04, 10:05 PM
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They get no sympathy from me.
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Old 11-06-04, 10:16 PM
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Well, I agree the French have done some good and bad things in Africa. I think they had a peace-keeping force in Congo, but I don't know if they're still there. I've also read some reports that claimed the rebel fighters in Congo have been known to eat hearts and drink the blood of their victims.
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Old 11-07-04, 12:08 AM
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I feel sorry for the soldiers who died. May God bless their souls.
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