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Hollywood Seen as Liability to Left

Old 11-05-04, 07:08 PM
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Hollywood Seen as Liability to Left

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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...n_hollywood_dc

By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Hollywood is licking its wounds after an election that saw voters not only reject the candidate it anointed -- Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) -- but repudiate the values that the liberal stronghold cherishes.

Now, amid the second-guessing and recriminations that inevitably haunt the losing side, some are beginning to ask: Has Hollywood become a liability to the Democrats?

Political analysts said that polarizing figures such as Michael Moore -- whose "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary bitterly attacked President Bush (news - web sites) -- alienated Middle America as much as they galvanized the faithful.

"There's no question that some Republican voters feel pistol-whipped by famous people getting involved in presidential elections," said Jonathan Wilcox, who teaches a course on celebrity and society at the University of Southern California.

He said Hollywood rhetoric, such as comments attributed to the singer Cher suggesting Republican right wingers would force gays to live in a single state, showed "a degree of dialogue that goes beyond political license."

Even some in the entertainment industry who lent their famous names to Kerry's losing cause, only to find themselves nursing a hangover when all of the votes were counted, were rethinking their approach.

"I was a little reckless with my comments, to be honest," the rapper known as P. Diddy, who sided with Kerry and organized a "Vote or Die" campaign aimed at getting young people to the polls, told MTV on election Day.

He was referring his use of a vulgar call for supporters to vote Bush out of office.

P. DIDDY HAS SECOND THOUGHTS

"I learned a lot in this process. I learned that my power could be used better," he said. "Instead of attacking Bush, it would have been better to light a flame under young Americans and let them make the decisions."

Moore remains unrepentant. "We're not going away," his Web site reads.

In making the case for a Hollywood backlash, many point to a fund-raising event for Kerry at New York's Radio City Music Hall last July, where actress Whoopi Goldberg (news) mocked Bush in crude sexual terms.

Instead of distancing himself from such inflammatory rhetoric, Kerry appeared to embrace it, telling the crowd after Goldberg's routine that she and other performers "conveyed to you the heart and soul of America."

The Bush campaign soon seized on the remarks. "President Bush doesn't think it's the heart and soul of America," said Nicolle Devenish, the campaign's communications director.

While it was only a snapshot in a long campaign, such moments stand out after Americans told exit pollsters that "moral values" was their top issue in selecting a president.

"Kerry may have been too much identified with the Hollywood left and I think that hurt him," said Republican political analyst Allen Hoffenblum.

"Clinton could get away with it because voters already knew who he was and they just saw him as being starry-eyed. They never perceived him as being a left-winger.

"But when Kerry surrounded himself with Whoopi Goldberg and Barbra Streisand (news) and Bruce Springsteen (news) and Michael Moore, many voters concluded 'well, this guy must be a real liberal,"' Hoffenblum said.
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Old 11-05-04, 07:15 PM
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But not A-Nold.

It may have more to do with the <i>method</i> of representation rather than the cause.
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Old 11-05-04, 07:27 PM
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I think it definitely hurt them in that it alienated moderate voters. If there had been less of it, or had the celebrity endorsements been far more toned down, it might have helped. Alas, the chances of it helping them in 4 years, even if orchestrated in a more effective manner, have been diminished substantially due to what happened this year.
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Old 11-05-04, 07:28 PM
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Duh.

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Old 11-05-04, 08:08 PM
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"I learned a lot in this process. I learned that my power could be used better," he said. "Instead of attacking Bush, it would have been better to light a flame under young Americans and let them make the decisions."



Well, in Whoville they say, P. Diddy's brain grew 3 sizes that day...
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Old 11-05-04, 08:40 PM
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The Film Actors Guild will not stand for this.

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Old 11-05-04, 08:40 PM
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I think Hollywood got caught up in the ABB and Bush hating (as many of us did) and it did not play well with a lot of folks. I don't think the Dems should cut all ties, but if they (Hollywood) can tone it down and the Dems can actually nominate an electable candidate, they have a good chance.
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Old 11-05-04, 09:56 PM
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VinVega

I think Hollywood got caught up in the ABB and Bush hating (as many of us did) and it did not play well with a lot of folks. I don't think the Dems should cut all ties, but if they (Hollywood) can tone it down and the Dems can actually nominate an electable candidate, they have a good chance.
I disagree. If they can tone it down, it will simply do less harm IMO.

ABB and Bush-hating didn't play; that's true. But I believe that something else will never play: rich and famous people telling people who aren't rich and famous what to do. Sure, if you already agree with them, you may like that big celebrities are saying what you're thinking, but those people are already on your side. It's the rest of the people you need to reach, and it's just human nature to envy celebrities and in turn secretly (or openly) hate them. There's a reason celebrity failures make up so much of the news ... people just love to see them go down. They likely think celebrities don't understand the struggles they face and wipe their asses with more money than the rest of us will see in a lifetime. True or not, such perceptions make it such that the typical voter doesn't want to be told how to vote and what to think from these people. At best, these celebrities will just be ignored. At worst, they'll piss people off to where they vote the other way out of spite or drag their asses to the polls when they may otherwise be inclined to just stay home.

Much like crazed right wing fundamentalists, celebrities are typically preaching to the choir. The louder they yell the more they build a wall between those who already agree with them and those who aren't really sure. Something the Republicans have done well lately is not so publically embracing the crazy wings of their party. Sure, it's there, and we all know it's there, but it's not as public as it has been. The Democrats need to learn this lesson. The last way to identify with average Americans is through people who are renowned for being anything but.

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Old 11-05-04, 10:06 PM
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So much Hollywood hate on a DVD board. Oh the irony.
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Old 11-06-04, 12:26 AM
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So much Hollywood hate on a DVD board. Oh the irony.

So much Hollywood hate on a DVD board. Oh the irony.
I thought I was the only one who noticed.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:10 AM
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I'm stating the obvious, but what the hell.

It isn't that the rich Hollywood types are making their voices heard, it's what they say and how they say it. Let's face it, those that are supporting the conservative movement are generally talking a positive message, they actively support conservative ideals without bashing the left.

In stark contrast, the liberal bunch is very negative. If the liberal Hollywooders had a positive message about liberal principles rather than just bash the Bush Administration and conservatives in general, I don't think so many people would be turned off.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by Toonview
So much Hollywood hate on a DVD board. Oh the irony.
It's because they won't release Star Wars on DVD.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
It isn't that the rich Hollywood types are making their voices heard, it's what they say and how they say it.
Bingo. Yeah, I was gonna state the same, but it seemed a little obvious.

Not to everyone though, I suppose. Dan could learn a thing or two.

It's one thing to say:
1) Celebrity speaks
2) Things don't go well

and another to analyze why #2 may have resulted from #1 other than the words "celebrity" and "speaks."

For instance, if I pee on a fence and it hurts, that doesn't mean I should stop peeing on fences. It just means that particular fence had the electricity on. Or that I need to see a doctor.

Whoopie was peeing on an electric fence, see?
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Old 11-06-04, 01:35 AM
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Let's face it, those that are supporting the conservative movement are generally talking a positive message, they actively support conservative ideals without bashing the left.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
I'm stating the obvious, but what the hell.

It isn't that the rich Hollywood types are making their voices heard, it's what they say and how they say it. Let's face it, those that are supporting the conservative movement are generally talking a positive message, they actively support conservative ideals without bashing the left.

In stark contrast, the liberal bunch is very negative. If the liberal Hollywooders had a positive message about liberal principles rather than just bash the Bush Administration and conservatives in general, I don't think so many people would be turned off.
Wow, I think you are absolutely right. Personally, I am an upbeat guy, and if I hear gloom and doom, I will look elsewhere (within reason). When was the last time you saw conservatives band together to bitch, moan, and protest?

People will gravitate and vote for a postive message.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Bugg
Yeah, the problem this year is that the left just wasn't "left enough"
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Old 11-06-04, 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Bugg
Hopefully it's understood that I'm excluding conservative talk radio celebrities and other political talking heads from my generalization. These people are about as negative as it gets in terms of bashing the other side. Somehow, it's perfectly okay for Coulter or Hannity to bash the other side continually and with such venom, but not a liberal from Hollywood. ANYONE who supports these people has no right to bitch about liberal Hollywood celebrities IMO.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
Hopefully it's understood that I'm excluding conservative talk radio celebrities and other political talking heads from my generalization. These people are about as negative as it gets in terms of bashing the other side. Somehow, it's perfectly okay for Coulter or Hannity to bash the other side continually and with such venom, but not a liberal from Hollywood. ANYONE who supports these people has no right to bitch about Hollywood celebrities IMO.
Coulter talks to the Kool-aid drinkers. Hollywood has the balls to speak to everyone. That is the difference. Ann knows her audience, and Hollywood assumes that everyone is their's.

Just my opinion, naturally
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Old 11-06-04, 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Coulter talks to the Kool-aid drinkers. Hollywood has the balls to speak to everyone. That is the difference. Ann knows her audience, and Hollywood assumes that everyone is their's.

Just my opinion, naturally
That may or may not be the difference, but it's irrelevent to my point anyway. I'm talking about the message -- what these celebrities say and how they say it. In those terms, there's not much difference.

~~~~~~~~~~

Positive v. negative message... Let's take an example from the music world. Not that I like or know shit about country music, but these country music bands who actively support the troops and the Bush Administration, they are absolutely positive in their message, at least every time I hear them talk. They talk in favor of something, instead of bitching about the other side.


Of course, the cynic in me recognizes that this is very easy to do when YOUR side is in power. IIRC, conservatives were VERY negative when Clinton was in power.

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Old 11-06-04, 02:07 AM
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I dont like Whoopi Goldberg.

Actually, some good point here.

As an independent (I think thats what I am. I agree/disagree with both sides depending on the issue), I dont like either side telling me what I should do and what I should believe in and shoving it down my throat.

It's a turnoff.

Basically an extreme lefty turns me off as much as an extreme righty.

P.S. Some people are just plain stupid and cant think for themselves. My cousin says he is a republican because Arnold S. is one and was an action star. No other reason which involves politics whatsoever. He is 29 years old.
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Old 11-06-04, 03:43 AM
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I kind of agree. I don't want to be told why Bush is evil as if he was some Bond Villian and I really don't want to be told what I should think. I just want them to explain what they stand for and what they are going to do as leaders. The Dems this year never really had much of a platform other than Bush is evil.

That is not a basis for a campaign I will follow. Just being the opposite of the Republicans is not really much of a party stand. For one thing not everything the Republicans are doing is wrong or bad for the country. They Dems need to take a stand on issues and be clear with their intentions. Instead they just tried to be anti-Bush and jumped around on several issues to try and appeal to everyone. I can see through that kind of bullcrap.
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Old 11-06-04, 11:48 AM
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Here's to hoping the Film Actors Guild keeps on doing what it's doing.
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Old 11-06-04, 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by darkside
That is not a basis for a campaign I will follow. Just being the opposite of the Republicans is not really much of a party stand. For one thing not everything the Republicans are doing is wrong or bad for the country. They Dems need to take a stand on issues and be clear with their intentions. Instead they just tried to be anti-Bush and jumped around on several issues to try and appeal to everyone. I can see through that kind of bullcrap.
As can most moderates who, IMHO, are generally more intelligent than the members of the blindly partisan advocacies who will soak up the sewage that idealogues like Coulter and Al Franken (et. al.) spew, and buy their products and books and keep them wealthy selling their products.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Toonview
So much Hollywood hate on a DVD board. Oh the irony.
Not so much ironic as expected. Hollywood sells a product that a large cross section of Americans willingly and enthusiastically purchase. Yet, they (being a small handful of very vocal celebrities who tend to be viewed as speaking for an entire entity when they really probably do not) offend a substantial portion of their customers by micturating on their beliefs.
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