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should foreigners be able to vote in US elections?

Old 11-05-04, 07:59 PM
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should foreigners be able to vote in US elections?

..............

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Old 11-05-04, 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by gcbrowni
This comment has triggered a very negative reaction in me; much more than it, on the surface, should. I ran across this quote from a JFK speech recently, and it's gotten me thinking. I'll pause a minute while you go read it.

(http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html)
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ... "

I think this explains a lot about the true heart of America. Our foreign policy, Iraq, hatred of gun control, even the feelings of the Democrats who believe Bush will remove their liberties.

I don't want to minimize the contributions of the Canadians, British, Australians, or our other allies, but there are a lot of young American soldiers buried in foreign countries. They didn't perish for oil, or land. They didn't die because the enemy was at the border of the US, or almost so. They died to defend the liberties and freedoms of peoples and cultures that, in some cases, were completely alien to them. I honestly believe that we are a different place than the rest of the world. No matter how bad relations with Europe or the rest of the world get, I'm sure we will be there if they need us, ready to die in land far away for a people whos language we don't speak and culture we don't know, to ensure their liberty and freedom. And we'll be willing to do it alone, without the help of anyone else, if need be.

Americans die for freedom. Would you really deny us the opportunity to die well?



As an aside, I never really understood the appeal of Kennedy before reading this speech. It's as good as the best of Lincoln and Jefferson.

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Old 11-05-04, 11:30 PM
  #28  
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I have absolutely no problem with letting foreign countries vote for our president.




We invade, eliminate their government, and make them a state. Hey, now they can vote!
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Old 11-06-04, 05:40 AM
  #29  
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Originally posted by OldDude
If you make this a poll, please make "fuck no" one of the choices. If we wanted foreigners meddling our politics, we could have stayed an English colony.


and there is no way this guy would have written this had foreigners wanted bush overall. he would backpedal so much...
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Old 11-06-04, 07:10 AM
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NO

what's worse? taxation without representation? or representation without taxation?
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Old 11-06-04, 10:02 AM
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Look guys, most people really don't think we should have the right to vote on your president. You have a lot of influience on us, but there's this thing called sovereignty that is very important.
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Old 11-06-04, 11:12 AM
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NO.
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Old 11-06-04, 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by gcbrowni
This comment has triggered a very negative reaction in me; much more than it, on the surface, should. I ran across this quote from a JFK speech recently, and it's gotten me thinking. I'll pause a minute while you go read it.

(http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html)
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ... "

I think this explains a lot about the true heart of America. Our foreign policy, Iraq, hatred of gun control, even the feelings of the Democrats who believe Bush will remove their liberties.

I don't want to minimize the contributions of the Canadians, British, Australians, or our other allies, but there are a lot of young American soldiers buried in foreign countries. They didn't perish for oil, or land. They didn't die because the enemy was at the border of the US, or almost so. They died to defend the liberties and freedoms of peoples and cultures that, in some cases, were completely alien to them. I honestly believe that we are a different place than the rest of the world. No matter how bad relations with Europe or the rest of the world get, I'm sure we will be there if they need us, ready to die in land far away for a people whos language we don't speak and culture we don't know, to ensure their liberty and freedom. And we'll be willing to do it alone, without the help of anyone else, if need be.

Americans die for freedom. Would you really deny us the opportunity to die well?



As an aside, I never really understood the appeal of Kennedy before reading this speech. It's as good as the best of Lincoln and Jefferson.
:standing ovation:
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Old 11-06-04, 11:48 AM
  #34  
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Originally posted by gcbrowni
This comment has triggered a very negative reaction in me; much more than it, on the surface, should. I ran across this quote from a JFK speech recently, and it's gotten me thinking. I'll pause a minute while you go read it.

(http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html)
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ... "

I think this explains a lot about the true heart of America. Our foreign policy, Iraq, hatred of gun control, even the feelings of the Democrats who believe Bush will remove their liberties.

I don't want to minimize the contributions of the Canadians, British, Australians, or our other allies, but there are a lot of young American soldiers buried in foreign countries. They didn't perish for oil, or land. They didn't die because the enemy was at the border of the US, or almost so. They died to defend the liberties and freedoms of peoples and cultures that, in some cases, were completely alien to them. I honestly believe that we are a different place than the rest of the world. No matter how bad relations with Europe or the rest of the world get, I'm sure we will be there if they need us, ready to die in land far away for a people whos language we don't speak and culture we don't know, to ensure their liberty and freedom. And we'll be willing to do it alone, without the help of anyone else, if need be.

Americans die for freedom. Would you really deny us the opportunity to die well?



As an aside, I never really understood the appeal of Kennedy before reading this speech. It's as good as the best of Lincoln and Jefferson.
Agreed.

The US bears the brunt of most world affairs and suffers the most losses. I think its in American's interest that we will continue to do so. It's not because we want to, but because we have to. There is a serious lack of conviction and responsibility in this world and until that changes, America will always be there.
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Old 11-06-04, 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Trigger
I think it's pretty funny though how so much hypocracy is flying around... it's almost as funny as people wanting to invade other countries and then getting pissed off at the 'terrorists'.
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Old 11-06-04, 06:21 PM
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But, but.... foreigners are still taxed? They pay Social Security taxes but don't get a dime of it... wtf is going on?!
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Old 11-06-04, 09:21 PM
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what do you mean they dont get a dime of it?
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Old 11-07-04, 08:49 PM
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Depends... If they vote Republican, by all means let them
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Old 11-07-04, 09:33 PM
  #39  
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Originally posted by gcbrowni
This comment has triggered a very negative reaction in me; much more than it, on the surface, should. I ran across this quote from a JFK speech recently, and it's gotten me thinking. I'll pause a minute while you go read it.

(http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html)
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. ... "

I think this explains a lot about the true heart of America. Our foreign policy, Iraq, hatred of gun control, even the feelings of the Democrats who believe Bush will remove their liberties.

I don't want to minimize the contributions of the Canadians, British, Australians, or our other allies, but there are a lot of young American soldiers buried in foreign countries. They didn't perish for oil, or land. They didn't die because the enemy was at the border of the US, or almost so. They died to defend the liberties and freedoms of peoples and cultures that, in some cases, were completely alien to them. I honestly believe that we are a different place than the rest of the world. No matter how bad relations with Europe or the rest of the world get, I'm sure we will be there if they need us, ready to die in land far away for a people whos language we don't speak and culture we don't know, to ensure their liberty and freedom. And we'll be willing to do it alone, without the help of anyone else, if need be.

Americans die for freedom. Would you really deny us the opportunity to die well?



As an aside, I never really understood the appeal of Kennedy before reading this speech. It's as good as the best of Lincoln and Jefferson.
That is a great post. I completely agree.

For one, there is a huge disconnect between Europe and the United States. And it really didn't just start during the Bush Administration, I'd argue that it started with the Reagan Administration.

When Reagan stood strong in confronting the Soviets, the Europeans gravled and worried that Reagan was going to start WWIII. Nothing even close came to fruition. The Cold War was won without firing a shot, because Reagan showed that strength always wins over weakness.

During the Clinton Administration, the Europeans forgot what it was like to have a strong foreign policy warrior in the White House. And just to pour more salt on the wounds of a disillusioned Europe, it took US intervention along with minimal NATO support to deal with Milosevich in their own back yard. Where was France in that deal?

And then comes Bush, reviled around the world as a dumb cowboy from Texas, as opposed to some "enlightened liberal intellectual" from Massachusetts. When the US was hit with 9/11, the world, including that bastard Arafat was "shocked" and dismayed. But what they didn't expect was Bush's response to it.

Simply put, Europe was secretly gleeful that the US was weakened after 9/11. But became shocked when we fought back and drove out a foreign government for harboring those who attacked us. And then the European anger grew when we flexed our muscles even more when we attacked Iraq to oust Saddam. Once again, the Europeans proved that they fear American power. Why? I do not know. Well, I do know. They resent the fact that after the end of the Cold War, the US was the only remaining superpower and they can't stand it.

Today we see Jacques "Iraq" Chirac doing everything he can to replenish French power, but he has fogotten the two most important things when it comes to growing power. 1) You have to have the economic power, and 2) you have to have the military power. They have neither. The French economy, much like Germany's is in a shamble....running about a 10% unemployment rate, and their so-called wonderful health care system is a joke. How many elderly folks died of heat in the Summer of '03? And their military is a joke.


But what's this have to do with foreignors voting in American elections? Well, it helps to have to same values as the people who you're trying to influence. I feel modern Europe does not have those same values because quite frankly, their reaction to the Bush re-election proves that. But then you say, well the US always mettles in other countries' values. Yeah, so you're saying that every human being doesn't want to live in freedom? Bullshit. To say that they don't shows that you may be selfish, or at the very least, a subject to your own government.
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Old 11-08-04, 01:43 PM
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There are no stupid questions... well, er, uh... scratch that.
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Old 11-08-04, 01:44 PM
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As long as the US senate gets to tax those countries and then dole out the funds in accordance, and the militaries of those countries had to answer to the CiC...why not

eXcentris...I understand that the US has a higher military budget than the next 20...but how many wars has that rediculously overwhelming firepower prevented?

-Without a massive military, would South Korea be an independent democracy?
-Without a massive US military, would Western Europe have staved off the Soviet Invasion?
-Where would China be today without a US juggernaut to worry about?
-Israel?

Just a thought that you wouldnt like to ponder...Lower the US military standing, AND WATCH VIOLENT CONFLICTS WORLDWIDE INCREASE.

Just like there has never been an invention that prevented more wars than the atom bomb, there has never been a greater force for peace in the world than the modern era US military.
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Old 11-08-04, 01:49 PM
  #42  
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Originally posted by eXcentris
And proof of what I stated above. Bush/Cheney get 5% of the vote.

http://www.usworldvote.org/
Check out the results from Iraq:

Iraq's vote:

Age group: all
Sex: Both

George W. Bush/Dick Cheney Republican Party 3 43%

Walt Brown/Mary Alice Herbert Socialist Party USA 3 43%

Michael Badnarik/Richard Campagna Libertarian Party 1 14%
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Old 11-08-04, 01:54 PM
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Alright, since no one else has said what we've all been thinking, I'll go ahead and let it be told:


Foreigners and ONLY foreigners should be able to vote and decide our elections.

There.
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Old 11-08-04, 02:02 PM
  #44  
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Originally posted by Venusian
what do you mean they dont get a dime of it?
Means they pay social security taxes, but they can never apply for or receive social security payments and medicaid or medicare assistance.
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Old 11-08-04, 02:03 PM
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by foreigners do you mean non-citizens (green card holders)?
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Old 11-08-04, 02:35 PM
  #46  
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Originally posted by huzefa
But, but.... foreigners are still taxed? They pay Social Security taxes but don't get a dime of it... wtf is going on?!
dont bet on that

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/...Z2U9MQ**&p_li=

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/...Z2U9MQ**&p_li=
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Old 11-08-04, 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
I'd slash your defense budget in half. There's no way you NEED to spend more than the next 20 countries combined for defense.
And don't use the %GDP argument, it's a ridiculous amount regardless. To quote Andy Rooney: "Does the Air Force really need 30 different kinds of airplanes?" Not to mention making stuff that doesn't even work like Patriot missiles. A lot of these programs could be cut with minimum impact on your already vastly superior military capabilities. But it's all about $$$ and keeping generals and arms manufacturers happy. And don't get me started on missile defense, another silly thing that will never work.

i hope that was a joke.
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Old 11-08-04, 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Trigger
Exactly - I'd say 'no' as an american except for the fact that we continually meddle in the way other countries are run. I think it would make our country alot stronger and it would perhaps make even more of our citizens vote. Although, I don't see how this can be done given how corrupt the voting system is already with lost ballots, torn up voter registrations and hanging chad-sacs.

I wouldn't be opposed to allowing a certain number of electoral votes to various allied countries. It's one step closer to owning and running those countries and we don't even have to sweat over a war or invasion.
You're scaring me
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