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My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Old 11-04-04, 05:23 PM
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My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Here's a guy that has never had to work for a living. Everything he's done in life has been given to him due to his family's political connections. He talks a lot about hard work, yet he's never really ever done any. He can't appreciate the underclass, because he has no concept of how hard it is to provide for a family in today's economy.

He talks about how the average family is getting back $1000 from his in tax plan, while in reality, most familes only see about 10% of that amount.

The people that can afford to pay a little more, now pay less. The people that are barely making it, they'll soon be paying more. And with his "new and improved" tax reform, expect the rich to get richer and the poor schmucks making under $200,000 to keep struggling.

George W. Bush, our very own reverse Robin Hood, is the only President to cut taxes in war time and further bloat the deficit. And people love him for it.

He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.

Last edited by Wannabe; 11-04-04 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:27 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe

He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.

First the liberals listen to Michael Moore. Now they get their material from Osama Bin Laden.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:31 PM
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He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:32 PM
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Re: Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by TruGator
First the liberals listen to Michael Moore. Now they get their material from Osama Bin Laden.
eh. either way works for me




I just can't believe that people who paid no income tax didn't get any money, too
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Old 11-04-04, 05:38 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
The people that can afford to pay a little more, now pay less.
The people who can afford to pay more already pay quite a bit more. They pay less after the across the board tax cut because it was an across the board tax cut.

The people that are barely making it, they'll soon be paying more.
Under which proposed tax plan?

Also, I believe that you are the first person I have ever seen claim that people making under $200,000 per annum are struggling.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:38 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by TruGator
First the liberals listen to Michael Moore. Now they get their material from Osama Bin Laden.
Hey TruGator! How much is the current deficit? What is the annual interest that we pay on the national debt? How long would it take to pay down the national debt based on George W. Bush's five year budget? What will be the dollar cost of invading Iraq by the end of GWB's term in 2008?

Flippant responses are easy. Do you actually know anything?
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Old 11-04-04, 05:40 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
The people that are barely making it, they'll soon be paying more.
People who are "barely making it" probably pay no tax under the current system.

I say we double their taxes then ...
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Old 11-04-04, 05:44 PM
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People who are "barely making it" probably pay no tax under the current system.

I say we double their taxes then ...
I suppose you want to take away medications from people who aren't on any too.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Wannabe
Hey TruGator! How much is the current deficit? What is the annual interest that we pay on the national debt? How long would it take to pay down the national debt based on George W. Bush's five year budget? What will be the dollar cost of invading Iraq by the end of GWB's term in 2008?

Flippant responses are easy. Do you actually know anything?
Add the war cost which are not in the budget. I hear we have a 75 billion dollar tab to charge next month

But hey why worry if you have a pocket full of credit cards?
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Old 11-04-04, 05:50 PM
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You don't understand. Bush has promised to reduce the deficit - by 1/2, isn't it?

Bush's tax cuts are extremely fair - for muliti-millionaires & billionaires.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:54 PM
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Bush's tax cuts are extremely fair - for anyone who actually pays taxes
Much more accurate.
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Old 11-04-04, 05:55 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
Here's a guy that has never had to work for a living. Everything he's done in life has been given to him due to his family's political connections. He talks a lot about hard work, yet he's never really ever done any. He can't appreciate the underclass, because he has no concept of how hard it is to provide for a family in today's economy.
OK. We get it. You don't think he is familiar with the concept of work. (Brevity isn't your strong point, is it?)

Originally posted by Wannabe
He talks about how the average family is getting back $1000 from his in tax plan, while in reality, most familes only see about 10% of that amount.
Link? I don't suppose you'd care to discuss the percentage reduction as opposed to the dollar figure, would you? I see no problem with a family receiving a $50 reduction if that takes them from $51 to $1. I would have a problem with giving that family a $1000 "reduction" resulting in a cash gift of $950.

Originally posted by Wannabe
The people that can afford to pay a little more, now pay less. The people that are barely making it, they'll soon be paying more. And with his "new and improved" tax reform, expect the rich to get richer and the poor schmucks making under $200,000 to keep struggling.
Everyone pays less. Can you document your claim that people who "are barely making it" will be paying more, or does it work better as a vague claim? Also, I make less than $200K, don't consider myself a "poor schmuck", and don't mind "struggling" (where I was raised, we called it "hard work", and there's nothing wrong with it).

Originally posted by Wannabe
George W. Bush, our very own reverse Robin Hood, is the only President to cut taxes in war time and further bloat the deficit. And people love him for it.
That misunderstanding is why your username will always be appropriate.

Originally posted by Wannabe
He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.
I concur with Thor Simpson!
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Old 11-04-04, 05:58 PM
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Re: Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Shoveler

Link? I don't suppose you'd care to discuss the percentage reduction as opposed to the dollar figure, would you? I see no problem with a family receiving a $50 reduction if that takes them from $51 to $1. I would have a problem with giving that family a $1000 "reduction" resulting in a cash gift of $950.

You heartless bastard


















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Old 11-04-04, 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by bhk
Much more accurate.
Hogwash!!

Targetted tax cuts would be fair - not the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
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Old 11-04-04, 06:33 PM
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Re: Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Shoveler
Link? I don't suppose you'd care to discuss the percentage reduction as opposed to the dollar figure, would you? I see no problem with a family receiving a $50 reduction if that takes them from $51 to $1. I would have a problem with giving that family a $1000 "reduction" resulting in a cash gift of $950.
http://www.cbpp.org/1-9-03tax.htm

The Administration has sought to portray its “growth package” as providing substantial benefits to a broad spectrum of the population. To do so, it has repeatedly asserted that “92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003.” This information is misleading. Most taxpayers would receive far less than this average amount. According to data from the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, 80 percent of tax filers would receive a tax cut of less than $1,083 in 2003.

How can this be? The average tax cut is much larger than the tax cut a typical household would receive largely because, in generating these figures, the Administration has averaged the big tax cuts that those at the top of the income spectrum would receive with the far more modest tax cuts those in the middle of the income spectrum would get (and the small or non-existent tax cuts that would go to working families with low incomes). Take, for example, a hypothetical situation where one taxpayer gets a $10,500 tax cut and 9 taxpayers receive a $500 tax cut. Among these 10 taxpayers, the average tax cut amounts to $1,500. Yet 9 of the 10 taxpayers are receiving a tax cut only one-third that size.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center data indicate the following about the tax cuts the Administration’s plan would provide in 2003:

The average tax cut for tax filers in the middle fifth of the population — those filers right in the middle of the income spectrum — would be $256, only one-fourth the $1,083 figure the Administration is citing for the average taxpayer.

Almost half of all tax filers — 49 percent — would receive tax cuts of less than $100.

The average tax cut for the bottom 80 percent of tax filers would be $226. Even the next-to-top fifth of tax filers would get an average tax cut of only $574.

By contrast, the top one percent of tax filers would receive an average tax cut of $24,100. Those with incomes of more than $1 million would get tax cuts averaging a whopping $90,200.

Overall, 80 percent of tax filers would get less than the average tax cut of $1,083 the Administration is touting.
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Old 11-04-04, 06:52 PM
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OK, that it. I'm voting for Kerry!
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Old 11-04-04, 08:07 PM
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Re: Re: Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
http://www.cbpp.org/1-9-03tax.htm

The Administration has sought to portray its “growth package” as providing substantial benefits to a broad spectrum of the population. To do so, it has repeatedly asserted that “92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003.” This information is misleading. Most taxpayers would receive far less than this average amount. According to data from the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, 80 percent of tax filers would receive a tax cut of less than $1,083 in 2003.
These numbers jive nicely with what that tax cut is, an across the board tax cut. Do you have any ide3a what the people that benefit most in $ saved pay in taxes?

How is, more or less, cutting everyone's taxes by x% a tax cut that "benefits the rich?"
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Old 11-04-04, 08:19 PM
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C'mon folks....let's be honest.

The middle and lower classes are the larger consumer culture of this country. They are the ones who "stimulate" the economy through their spending on everything from school clothes to CDs to Pepsi-Cola. They save little and spend most of what they earn to survive.

The wealthier subculture of our country tend to be less avid consumers and more avid investors. Why? Because they can afford to. Our tax system cuts them every break possible so they lose little on their investments. And its working more and more to a no-tax system for them.

Bush is propoosing a national sales tax in place of income tax. So guess who will be paying more of that?

The middle and lower classes. They will ultimately pay more in their day to day effort to survive, and will ultimately struggle more. And the wealthy will pay much less than they do now.

This will result in one of two things:

A bankrupt nation or even heavier squeezed middle and lower classes.

And the really sad thing is that the red states will hardly notice it, being largely farm country, and therefore passed down from generation to generation.

And the more urban areas (aka the blue states) will become poorer and poorer.

The Republicans hold onto a unknowing base and the larger populatioon suffers.

Because you know....a billion just sometimes isn't enough.
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Old 11-04-04, 08:27 PM
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Re: My theory on Bush's Tax Fairness.

Originally posted by Wannabe
Here's a guy that has never had to work for a living. Everything he's done in life has been given to him due to his family's political connections. He talks a lot about hard work, yet he's never really ever done any. He can't appreciate the underclass, because he has no concept of how hard it is to provide for a family in today's economy.

He talks about how the average family is getting back $1000 from his in tax plan, while in reality, most familes only see about 10% of that amount.

The people that can afford to pay a little more, now pay less. The people that are barely making it, they'll soon be paying more. And with his "new and improved" tax reform, expect the rich to get richer and the poor schmucks making under $200,000 to keep struggling.

George W. Bush, our very own reverse Robin Hood, is the only President to cut taxes in war time and further bloat the deficit. And people love him for it.

He's going to overstimulate our economy to the verge of bankruptcy.
So someone making $199K is a poor schmuck? I suspect a lot of people wouldn't mind being a poor schmuck like that.

I also find it curious that you picked that 200K mark. Just a random amount of money?
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Old 11-04-04, 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by TheAllPurposeNothing
C'mon folks....let's be honest.

The middle and lower classes are the larger consumer culture of this country. They are the ones who "stimulate" the economy through their spending on everything from school clothes to CDs to Pepsi-Cola. They save little and spend most of what they earn to survive.
You need CDs and Pepsi Cola to survive?

The wealthier subculture of our country tend to be less avid consumers and more avid investors. Why? Because they can afford to. Our tax system cuts them every break possible so they lose little on their investments. And its working more and more to a no-tax system for them.
What is the definition fo this subculture? And what sorts of tax breaks? I'd appreciate details to figure out how and if I will ever qualify for any of them.

Bush is propoosing a national sales tax in place of income tax. So guess who will be paying more of that?
How likely do you actually think this is? I seriously doubt it will happen. I agree that the very poor would get screwed on it, but I don't see it so bad for the middle class. In fact I think it will motivate savings instead of their spending (which they're doing like drunken sailors).
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Old 11-04-04, 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Wannabe

Flippant responses are easy. Do you actually know anything?
Yes. I know you sound a lot like Osama Bin Laden.

Also, if you check the election thread, I called Florida and Ohio to Bush about 2 hours before any network, so obviously I know something.

Last edited by TruGator; 11-04-04 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 11-04-04, 11:55 PM
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Tax cuts stimulate the economy, it's as simple as that. By decreasing the cost of doing business in the country, more business gets done. The more business that gets done, the more taxes that get paid.

Give me one, just one, example of when tax hikes stimulated the economy.
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Old 11-05-04, 12:06 AM
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You need CDs and Pepsi Cola to survive?
No, but they need them to maintain the semblance of some sort of quality of life that keeps them from storming the gated communities of the rich and going all French Revolution on their asses.
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Old 11-05-04, 12:28 AM
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Whatever happened to paying your fair share and equal sacrifice? In paying taxes, it should not come down to what percentage you pay; equal sacrifice means that when paying taxes, people ought to feel the same degree of pain. That logically means that those who make more, will pay more, even percentage wise.

Bush's tax cuts allows those making $1 million to get back $90,000 while the average American received just $207 back. How is that equal share?

As USSC Justice Holmes said, "Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society"

And as FDR once joked, “Tax avoidance means that you hire a $250,000-fee lawyer, and he changes the word ‘evasion’ into the word ‘avoidance’
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