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Washington State Governor still not decided

Old 12-24-04, 11:46 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Venusian
can't they just have another recount?

State law doesn't allow for one. It allows for the first count, then a automatic recount, then the loser can pay for a manual recount wherever they want, and if it turns the election, they are paid back and the state must recount the rest of the state. But that is as far as it goes with the law.
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Old 12-24-04, 12:22 PM
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I just read an article about this mess. Funny how the Republicans act just like Democrats when their side loses. The hypocracy never ends in the political world.

They need to follow the state law on this one and move on. The correct candidate won and that is all that matters. The democrats followed the proper procedures for a close election and they ended up being right. Those 700 votes should have been counted, but the late votes from Iraq don't qualify. If soldiers can't get their votes in on time its unfortunate, but not a reason to hold up the entire election.

I just wonder how many thousands of votes get "lost" during every election. I wonder whose job it is to lose those votes for both democrats and republicans. I guess in every close race it just comes down to which side cheats better than the other.

Last edited by darkside; 12-24-04 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 12-24-04, 12:44 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by darkside
They need to follow the state law on this one and move on. The correct candidate won and that is all that matters. The democrats followed the proper procedures for a close election and they ended up being right. Those 700 votes should have been counted, but the late votes from Iraq don't qualify. If soldiers can't get their votes in on time its unfortunate, but not a reason to hold up the entire election.
While I agree with the sentiment (and didn't vote for either), I don't think we will ever be able to say that the correct person won. It seems that if she could count votes that did not count in the original count, then he should have the same opportunity (though I wish he wouldn't take that opportunity), especially given that her office handed down a ruling in '96 that those votes not counted could not be reconsidered in a recount.

I don't think he has any real recourse except to hope that the judges continue to change laws, but I don't think we will ever know if the correct person won. Another manual recount would probably yeild different results again.
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Old 12-24-04, 01:16 PM
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Neither will be seen as legitimate. Another vote would be the best move imo, maybe not the most practical, but it's better than letting the courts decide and trying to sweep this embarassment under the rug.
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Old 12-27-04, 08:49 AM
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I agree with Artman.
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Old 12-27-04, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Artman
Neither will be seen as legitimate. Another vote would be the best move imo, maybe not the most practical, but it's better than letting the courts decide and trying to sweep this embarassment under the rug.
Yep, the last thing you want in the situation of a disputed vote is for the courts to decide who wins.
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Old 12-27-04, 11:53 AM
  #57  
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He should concede.
I remember Ashcroft not challenging the fact that Carnahan was dead and therefore couldn't be elected to the Senate in 2000. Did wonders for the GOP here and Missouri has become a solid GOP state.
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Old 12-27-04, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
He should concede.
I remember Ashcroft not challenging the fact that Carnahan was dead and therefore couldn't be elected to the Senate in 2000. Did wonders for the GOP here and Missouri has become a solid GOP state.

So do I. It was very classy
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Old 12-29-04, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bhk
He should concede.
I remember Ashcroft not challenging the fact that Carnahan was dead and therefore couldn't be elected to the Senate in 2000. Did wonders for the GOP here and Missouri has become a solid GOP state.
I have to disagree that he should concede the election if he does this that means that whatever the democrats did to him was okay and they might try to pull the same thing next time. Well anyway Mrs. Gregoire may have won the election by a slim margin but she will enter office in a weakened position with no mandate and with the mistrust with half the voters in the state.
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Old 12-29-04, 09:05 PM
  #60  
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I have to disagree that he should concede the election if he does this that means that whatever the democrats did to him was okay and they might try to pull the same thing next time. Well anyway Mrs. Gregoire may have won the election by a slim margin but she will enter office in a weakened position with no mandate and with the mistrust with half the voters in the state.
I honestly think that it won't matter re: mandate or not.
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Old 12-30-04, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ_Spyder
I have to disagree that he should concede the election if he does this that means that whatever the democrats did to him was okay and they might try to pull the same thing next time. Well anyway Mrs. Gregoire may have won the election by a slim margin but she will enter office in a weakened position with no mandate and with the mistrust with half the voters in the state.
The Democrats did everything that was allowed by law. That's the difference. Supposedly Rossi wants to run against Cantwell in the future. If that is true, he needs to concede now rather than look like Gore.

Now he is calling for a revote. Not gonna' happen.
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Old 12-30-04, 12:35 PM
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sounds like he's whining calling for a do over. one article mentioned the legislature would have to approve it. does that mean a new law, or is there a legal stipulation already on the books for a do over?
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Old 12-30-04, 02:06 PM
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I wouldn't live in a state that had two women senators.
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Old 12-30-04, 03:25 PM
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more hyprocrisies from WA Democrats

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ngton_governor

OLYMPIA, Wash. - After three vote tallies and 58 days of waiting, Democrat Christine Gregoire was declared Washington's governor-elect on Thursday. But her Republican rival did not concede and wants a new election.


Secretary of State Sam Reed, a Republican, certified Gregoire, the three-term attorney general, as the winner of the closest governor's race in state history. She won a statewide hand recount by a scant 129 votes out of more than 2.8 million cast.


While there were mistakes, Reed told a news conference, "at this time there is nothing that appears fraudulent."


"I saw serious mistakes being made. I saw them being corrected," Reed said. "That's part of the process. The system itself has worked well."


But Republican candidate Dino Rossi, a former state legislative leader and real-estate investor, said the election was hopelessly flawed and that the Legislature should authorize a new election. He won both of the earlier counts.


Rossi also held open the possibility of contesting the election in the courts, and Reed said he was fully within his rights to continue to research a possible further challenge.

Gregoire's campaign rejected the idea of a new vote and said Rossi should accept the newly certified tally.

"This ain't golf. No mulligans allowed here, folks," Gregoire's spokesman, Morton Brilliant, said Wednesday. "It's irresponsible to spend $4 million in taxpayer money on a new election just because you don't like losing this one."

A revote would have to be approved by the Democrat-controlled state Legislature.

"The uncertainty surrounding this election process isn't just bad for you and me it is bad for the entire state," Rossi said, reading from a letter he said he sent to Gregoire. "People need to know for sure that the next governor actually won the election."

An unprecedented statewide hand recount had put Gregoire ahead for the first time, by just a tiny fraction of 1 percent.

Rossi, a real estate agent and former state senator, won the initial tally last month by 261 votes, triggering an automatic machine recount. He won that count, too, by 42 votes.

While noting that he could contest the election, Rossi said a legal challenge could drag on for months. The better way to clear up the mess, he said, would be to ask lawmakers to pass a bill calling for a special election as soon as the state Legislature convenes in early January for the 2005 session.

Asked what he would do if Gregoire rebuffed his request, Rossi said his campaign would take a close look at election data it has requested from King County and go from there. GOP leaders have spent the last several days weighing whether to proceed with contesting the results.

After the election, more than 700 ballots surfaced in the heavily Democratic county, which includes Seattle. The additional votes allowed Gregoire to stretch her lead from just 10 votes in the hand recount to her triple-digit advantage. A legal challenge would have to be filed by Jan. 22, 10 days after Gregoire's scheduled inauguration.

Gov. Gary Locke said he strongly disagreed with Rossi's call for another election. "The people have voted, and all votes properly cast were counted," said Locke, a Democrat who's retiring after two terms.

Amid the weeks of uncertainty, both Gregoire and Rossi have maintained transition offices, appointing teams to work on a state budget, Cabinet appointments and an agenda for the upcoming Legislature.

Rossi had been using the title "governor-elect," and his family even toured the Governor's Mansion.
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Old 12-30-04, 03:53 PM
  #65  
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Bah. I'm not a Gregoire fan, but the Democrats did everything the law allowed in recounting, so I can't fault them there. Rossi, however, doesn't like the result (and I don't blame him), but you don't really have a choice but to follow the rules set up prior to the election. That is all they have done.
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Old 12-30-04, 05:45 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Myster X
more hyprocrisies from WA Democrats

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ngton_governor
But Republican candidate Dino Rossi, a former state legislative leader and real-estate investor, said the election was hopelessly flawed and that the Legislature should authorize a new election. He won both of the earlier counts.
And of course Rossi didn't point out these flaws until the count was against him.

I say Gregoire and Rossi should be co-governors. Gregoire is governor on Mondays, Wednesdays, and alternate weekends. Rossi gets it Tuesdays, Thursdays, and the other weekends.
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Old 12-30-04, 08:14 PM
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It's getting to the point where I can't even watch the news anymore. Everything to do with this story just makes my blood boil.
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Old 12-31-04, 01:24 PM
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It doesn't bother me much. Gregoire won. It is amazing that Rossi was as close as he was. Now he needs to get out of the way, and prepare for the future. But if he continues the path he is on, he will end up looking like a sore loser (and understandably), who will not do well in the future.

I expect that my life will be no different with Gregoire than it would be with Rossi.
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Old 01-05-05, 02:16 PM
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here we go again......

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ecount05m.html

Election scrutiny reveals provisional-vote flaws

An unknown number of provisional voters, some of whom may not even have been registered to vote, improperly put their ballots directly into vote-counting machines at polling places, King County's elections superintendent said yesterday.

Once those ballots went into the machines, there was no way to separate them from legitimate ballots.

Provisional ballots are given on Election Day to voters who show up at the wrong precinct or whose registration is in question. The ballots are supposed to be put inside two envelopes, with the voter's name, address and signature on the outside, and counted only after the voter's status is verified.

Officials may never know exactly how many provisional ballots were improperly fed into voting machines, but a current review of polling-place records will give some indication of how widespread the problem was, county Elections Superintendent Bill Huennekens said.

Improperly cast provisional votes could play a role in a possible Republican challenge of Democrat Christine Gregoire's 129-vote victory over Republican Dino Rossi, whose campaign is preparing to ask that the election be set aside.

Miscast provisional votes could be one reason the number of ballots counted in King County outnumbered the list of voters who voted by 3,539.

"What part of it was it?" Huennekens said. "I don't know. Did it happen? Yes. Unfortunately, that's part of the process in King County, where we have over 2,600 precincts and over 540 polling locations and nearly 4,000 workers. It's a very human process, and in some cases that did happen."

State Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance, who plans to discuss the provisional-ballot issue at a news conference today, said it constituted a serious lapse in election security.

"We have very, very loose standards and procedures," he said. "I don't think our system in this state takes fraud and accuracy seriously."

In King County, a record 27,641 provisional ballots were counted in the election; 1,791 others were disqualified either because the voter wasn't registered or the signature on the ballot envelope didn't match the signature on file.

But in some cases, Huennekens said, poll workers mistakenly instructed provisional voters to put ballots directly into machines. In other cases, voters disregarded instructions and put their ballots into machines while workers were busy.

"I can't completely fault our poll workers 100 percent in this matter, especially when you're dealing with over 300,000 voters at the polls. People come in all kinds of varieties and shapes and sizes," Huennekens said.

He said there was no evidence of voter fraud.

Jim Rigby, a Republican observer at a polling place in the lobby of the King County Administration Building on Election Day, said that the scene was "chaos" and that he objected when one man walked into the building and promptly shoved a ballot into the vote-counting machine.

Rigby said others at the poll site saw two other voters put provisional ballots in the machine.

Teams of workers yesterday began comparing poll-book entries with computer records as part of "reconciling" the numbers, an activity that occurs after every election. Results are to be released Friday.

It's not the first election King County has had difficulty getting the numbers of voters and ballots to match. In the 2003 off-year general election, the number of ballots cast exceeded the number of voters by 606, even after reconciliation was completed.

In 2002 and 2000, the problem was reversed. Voters credited with voting exceeded the number of ballots by 2,809 in 2002 and by 7,770 in 2000.

Part of the discrepancy this year reflects 74 domestic-violence victims who voted but whose names aren't included in the published voter list and 484 military and overseas voters who cast mail ballots under special rules, Huennekens said.

County Elections Director Dean Logan has said he expects most of the remaining discrepancy to be explained by inaccuracies in accounting for votes at the polls and by failure to update a computer database.
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Old 01-05-05, 02:36 PM
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It's over X.

Get over it.
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Old 01-05-05, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gettinbranded
It's over X.

Get over it.
Well, if the election was decided by provisional ballots -- ballots which should not have been cast because the voter wasn't registered or whatever -- that seems like a serious problem. I'm not sure what the solution is (do-over election?), but I think it's worth more than "get over it."
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Old 01-05-05, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gettinbranded
It's over X.

Get over it.
Why didn't you say that after the first two recounts?
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Old 01-05-05, 03:19 PM
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This whole trainwreck is hilarious. The Democrats called Rossi a "thief" who "stole the election," but now that Gregoire is up the Republicans want a recount (I think this is a legitimate request, but I wish this would have been decided by an arbitrary third party), which Gregoire denounces as "ludicrous." She followed this by telling them to "calm down" and, basically, suck it.

Even worse is local news coverage. When the 700 votes were discovered, the head King county election official said to reporters something like, "We're not sure what we have here. We'll have to go through and examine them for validity before we can announce a new total." This KOMO reporter asked, and I'm saying this almost verbatim, "So you're saying that you intend to disenfranchise 700 voters by denying these votes?" He had this "what the fuck?" expression and said, "That's obviously <i>not</i> what I said. You were right here when I said it."
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Old 01-05-05, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls
Even worse is local news coverage. When the 700 votes were discovered, the head King county election official said to reporters something like, "We're not sure what we have here. We'll have to go through and examine them for validity before we can announce a new total." This KOMO reporter asked, and I'm saying this almost verbatim, "So you're saying that you intend to disenfranchise 700 voters by denying these votes?" He had this "what the fuck?" expression and said, "That's obviously <i>not</i> what I said. You were right here when I said it."
Yep, sounds like typical media!

Don't you know so long as you show up on election day you should get to vote?? Whether you are registered or not...whether you've already voted once or not... if the vote is not counted it's the big red machine disenfranchising voters

Or I know! Let's have same day voter registration so we can have widespread fraud!
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Old 01-05-05, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Myster X
Why didn't you say that after the first two recounts?

uhhh, duh! The Democrat won this time
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