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Can we now put Vietnam to rest?

Old 11-03-04, 12:11 PM
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Can we now put Vietnam to rest?

Will this be the last election where the ghosts of 'Nam are brought up as a major issue? Do we perhaps have one or two more to go? How is this looking?

What did Hillary do during the War?
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Old 11-03-04, 12:14 PM
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she killed babies.

WHORE!!!
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Old 11-03-04, 12:15 PM
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Old 11-03-04, 12:34 PM
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You mean PAX TV can stop playing Stolen Honor now? That thing was on like 10 times this weekend.
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Old 11-03-04, 12:39 PM
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I anxiously await the day when candidates were not old enough to have participated in Vietnam.

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Old 11-03-04, 12:40 PM
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Vietnam will always remain a crucial part of American history and the sacrifices of the men there combined with the painful emotions of the war will never be forgotten.

When it is brought up in elections, particularily in the manner it was in this most recent election by both sides, it is a disservice to the men and women who served our country during that time.

It was a painful point in our nation's history. Laying it to rest politically will be a blessing when it happens.
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Old 11-03-04, 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Birrman54
I anxiously await the day when candidates were not old enough to have participated in Vietnam.
I turn 35 next year. I'll be your candidate.

"Candidate DarkFlounder, what is your position on Vietnam?"

"Vietnam? Didn't they film Rambo there?"
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Old 11-03-04, 02:45 PM
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They're just starting to move from the WWII bandwagon to the Vietnam bandwagon in video games so it probably will be mentioned until we move onto who served in Desert Storm.

Video games are a strong showing for current political issues...it's a fact.

God, Korea gets no love.
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Old 11-03-04, 02:54 PM
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There will probably be a small gap between the Vietnam candidates and the Gulf War candidates. They'll have to run on the leg warmer and New Wave vs Disco platform.
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Old 11-03-04, 04:43 PM
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I dont see later wars being as large an issue. Certainly military experience isn't required to become President, and wihtout Vietnam the whole draft issue is gone.

I'm sick and tired of the draft dodger debate. (bonus point for alliteration).

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Old 11-03-04, 09:08 PM
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Put it in cinematic terms...Iraq is just a low-budget remake of Vietnam.
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Old 11-03-04, 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by Mammal
Put it in cinematic terms...Iraq is just a low-budget remake of Vietnam.
I know you don't really mean that.

Iraq is not another Vietnam.

When we commit 550,000 troops in Iraq, come back and make the Vietnam-Iraq comparison.

When we're bombing neighboring countries, then I might see some comparison.

When we have combat forces there for 7 years, then you might have some basis for comparison.
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Old 11-03-04, 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
I know you don't really mean that.

Iraq is not another Vietnam.

When we commit 550,000 troops in Iraq, come back and make the Vietnam-Iraq comparison.

When we're bombing neighboring countries, then I might see some comparison.

When we have combat forces there for 7 years, then you might have some basis for comparison.
Not to mention that it's the complete opposite to the domino effect that Vietnam was.
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Old 11-03-04, 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Birrman54
I anxiously await the day when candidates were not old enough to have participated in Vietnam.

birrman54
I anxiously await the day when I can anxiously await a day when candidates are not old enough to have participated in Desert Storm or Operation "Enduring freedom". No matter what, there will always be something to beat to the ground. Have it be WMD's, Terrorist, Vietnam, Korea, etc. etc.

Just gotta deal with it.
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Old 11-03-04, 10:23 PM
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Since the next potential canidate that served in vietnam has an untouchable record (7 years in a prison camp)...yes, we can put it to bed
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Old 11-03-04, 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Tommy Ceez
Since the next potential canidate that served in vietnam has an untouchable record (7 years in a prison camp)...yes, we can put it to bed
Strange, it seemed quite touchable in 2000, when George W. Bush made him out to look anti-military (and frankly, a bit of a *****). Of course, he did come crawling back this year, so maybe he liked it.
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Old 11-03-04, 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Tommy Ceez
Since the next potential canidate that served in vietnam has an untouchable record (7 years in a prison camp)...yes, we can put it to bed
But Bush insinuated in the 2000 primaries that the POW service made McCain may have gone a little crazy.

Besides that, McCain's black child that Bush pointed out in 2000 may not play well with the south.

On the other hand, I doubt that the democrat who runs will do anything as tasteless as to try and denigrate McCain's service so maybe you're right.
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Old 11-03-04, 11:48 PM
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The situation in Iraq is not improving; quite the opposite is happening. We're in the same position we were in Vietnam in the late '60s...

1. We can't win with what we have in-country. The longer we battle the "insurgency" the more we feed it.

2. We can't just leave, for fear of an even bigger bloodbath, and worse, a loss of face.

3. We're chewing up our professional military, and can't maintain what we're doing forever.

4. The reluctance to draft now is equivalent to the refusal to call up the reserves and National Guard then. There's no national will to sacrifice to that degree.

5. What will happen is "Iraqiize" the war, just as we "Vietnamized."
Eventually we'll leave, our friends will lose, chaos will continue but we'll be out of it.

That won't be pretty.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Mammal
The situation in Iraq is not improving; quite the opposite is happening. We're in the same position we were in Vietnam in the late '60s...

1. We can't win with what we have in-country. The longer we battle the "insurgency" the more we feed it.

2. We can't just leave, for fear of an even bigger bloodbath, and worse, a loss of face.

3. We're chewing up our professional military, and can't maintain what we're doing forever.

4. The reluctance to draft now is equivalent to the refusal to call up the reserves and National Guard then. There's no national will to sacrifice to that degree.

5. What will happen is "Iraqiize" the war, just as we "Vietnamized."
Eventually we'll leave, our friends will lose, chaos will continue but we'll be out of it.

That won't be pretty.
I would want to look back after a minimum of 6 months after the Iraq elections to be able to say any of that.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
I would want to look back after a minimum of 6 months after the Iraq elections to be able to say any of that.
I agree; <strike>the end of major combat operations</strike> <strike>the handover of sovereignty</strike> the elections will be a turning point.
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Old 11-04-04, 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by dork
I agree; <strike>the end of major combat operations</strike> <strike>the handover of sovereignty</strike> the elections will be a turning point.

They may or may not be, but deciding that this is another Vietnam at this point when there are very striking differences is just silly. Unless one just wants the shock value to become even less.
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Old 11-04-04, 08:30 AM
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Indeed, there are striking differences. In Vietnam, the enemy controlled many jungle areas by day and most of the countryside by night. Iraq is desert, and we have sophisticated night vision equipment and air power that works well under those conditions. We won't see large-scale enemy formations anywhere. The cities are a different story.

Except for an infamous few weeks during Tet of '68, Saigon during the entire war was a safer place than Baghdad is now. Except for Hue during the same Tet offensive, Vietnam had nothing like Fallujah.

I hope I'm wrong, dead wrong, but I'm glad I don't have a kid in the Army or Marines now.
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Old 11-04-04, 09:33 AM
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But Bush insinuated in the 2000 primaries that the POW service made McCain may have gone a little crazy.
His Senate colleagues are the ones who thought McCain was a little touched in the head.
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