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My problem with a Bush win...

Old 11-03-04, 07:01 AM
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My problem with a Bush win...

It looks like Bush is going to win, assuming he does I have one big issue with it.

First, I'm not a Bush supporter, but I dislike him less than Kerry, so I'm glad to see Kerry not win.

However, if Kerry does somehow pull out a miracle win, then obviously he'd be up for re-election in 2008. However, if he doesn't win, then that's going to leave the door wide open for Hillary, and there won't be a republican with the incumbantcy advantage.

It does look like the economy has turned around and is starting to go back to an upwardly trend which will help a republican in 2008, but still...Hillary scares me.
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Old 11-03-04, 07:02 AM
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2 open primaries could finally open the door for a good candidate that you yourself are probably looking for (given your choice of evils comment).
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Old 11-03-04, 07:06 AM
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All I can say is that 4 years is a long, long time. 2004 is obviously very different from 2000. I'm sure the next four years will be equally interesting.
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Old 11-03-04, 07:26 AM
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Let me say this, and it will assuage your fears. Hillary WILL run in 2008 and she will be more soundly defeated by the Republican grass roots than John Kerry was last night. You think a Mass liberal can galvanize the middle of America to vote Republican, the venom for Hillary is so palpable that they will add another 10-20% turnout. She will lose handily.
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Old 11-03-04, 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by VinVega
Let me say this, and it will assuage your fears. Hillary WILL run in 2008 and she will be more soundly defeated by the Republican grass roots than John Kerry was last night. You think a Mass liberal can galvanize the middle of America to vote Republican, the venom for Hillary is so palpable that they will add another 10-20% turnout. She will lose handily.
Agreed!!!

The Democrats had better choose someone other than the Hillary or Kerry type of Democrat to run in 2008 if they want to win. Maybe the Democrats, like the House Republicans for many many years, love to lose.

Why oh why doesn't the Democratic Party learn about how you win a national election? All they need to do is see the results of the last 36 years.
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Old 11-03-04, 08:30 AM
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Its obvious that its going to take a strong candidate from the South for the Democrats to do something in 2008...As a Democrat, I really hope the party can get its act together, because this was a ripe election year, and the fact that Kerry is the best we had to offer really disappointed me.
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Old 11-03-04, 08:32 AM
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If the Democrats were smart they'd groom Evan Bayh to be their next nominee. They won't, for one specific reason. I bet some of you might know what that reason is...
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Old 11-03-04, 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by VinVega
Let me say this, and it will assuage your fears. Hillary WILL run in 2008 and she will be more soundly defeated by the Republican grass roots than John Kerry was last night. You think a Mass liberal can galvanize the middle of America to vote Republican, the venom for Hillary is so palpable that they will add another 10-20% turnout. She will lose handily.
Hillary running would get me off my butt and make me start actively campaigning for the Repubs. I'd be tempted to find some way to vote in a swing state instead of Alabama, even if it meant buying a delapidated shack there (any open, kvrdave? ) and staying there for a few nights.
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Old 11-03-04, 09:26 AM
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Hillary would be a big mistake.

But I cant see anyone that the dems could pull to go up against the strong field of Reps that we can see already. But 4 years is a long time.
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Old 11-03-04, 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by VinVega
Let me say this, and it will assuage your fears. Hillary WILL run in 2008 and she will be more soundly defeated by the Republican grass roots than John Kerry was last night. You think a Mass liberal can galvanize the middle of America to vote Republican, the venom for Hillary is so palpable that they will add another 10-20% turnout. She will lose handily.
I agree that this will probably happen. My concern is what happens then. The republicans may see a third term in the white house as a mandate to pursue their more extreme policies. Things like making abortion illegal, pushing religion (read: christianity) into schools, eroding our civil rights even more (Patriot Act III?), coming down even harder on states legalizing drugs, etc.

I hope the democrats realize that by nominating the unelectable, they are helping the opposition. Or is that their goal? To make things so bad, the backlash will propel them into power?
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Old 11-03-04, 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Pistol Pete
I agree that this will probably happen. My concern is what happens then. The republicans may see a third term in the white house as a mandate to pursue their more extreme policies. Things like making abortion illegal, pushing religion (read: christianity) into schools, eroding our civil rights even more (Patriot Act III?), coming down even harder on states legalizing drugs, etc.
Maybe that's what needs to happen for the common man to finally take notice. Americans are notorious for not looking ahead and realizing something until it's in our faces. Maybe some of this horrible stuff needs to happen and we see the results, sort of a wake up call.

God I hope not.
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Old 11-03-04, 11:00 AM
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Wow. See, I was thinking most of those would be good things. And those are things I think most of the 'common man' would support.
Abortion illegal in most cases.
Pushing the *freedom to bring* religion into schools.
Creating Patriot Acts, which efficiently bring together legislations that *already existed* into one relevant document.
States legalizing drugs...Hmm, I'm on the fence about that. I'm for things like crack and heroin and acid to be illegal, but I'm on the fence about MJ.
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Old 11-03-04, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by CaptainMarvel, Esq.
Hillary running would get me off my butt and make me start actively campaigning for the Repubs. I'd be tempted to find some way to vote in a swing state instead of Alabama, even if it meant buying a delapidated shack there (any open, kvrdave? ) and staying there for a few nights.
Always room for you, your wife, and my 6 dogs.
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Old 11-03-04, 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by VinVega
Let me say this, and it will assuage your fears. Hillary WILL run in 2008 and she will be more soundly defeated by the Republican grass roots than John Kerry was last night. You think a Mass liberal can galvanize the middle of America to vote Republican, the venom for Hillary is so palpable that they will add another 10-20% turnout. She will lose handily.
I don't know, I think a Hillary Clinton/Ted Kennedy ticket could draw a lot of support.
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Old 11-03-04, 11:33 AM
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Hillary is so bad I almost felt like supporting Kerry. My thinking being 4 years of Bush and 0 years of more Clinton is better than 8 years of Bush with even any small chance of 4 or 8 years of Hillary
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Old 11-03-04, 11:46 AM
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What is the right's obsession with Hillary Clinton? She's never going to be president and, unless things change radically over the next four years, she's not going to make a serious run for it (she may form an exploratory committee and may even put her name in the ring, but she won't be a serious candidate during the primaries, let alone the general election).

Hell, if Rudy desides to make the run for the Senate he was going to make in 2000, she might be out of your hair in 2006.

So again I ask, why are you all so obsessed with her?
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Old 11-03-04, 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Joe Molotov
I don't know, I think a Hillary Clinton/Ted Kennedy ticket could draw a lot of support.


Yes, but not for them.

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Old 11-03-04, 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by JasonF
What is the right's obsession with Hillary Clinton? She's never going to be president and, unless things change radically over the next four years, she's not going to make a serious run for it (she may form an exploratory committee and may even put her name in the ring, but she won't be a serious candidate during the primaries, let alone the general election).

Hell, if Rudy desides to make the run for the Senate he was going to make in 2000, she might be out of your hair in 2006.

So again I ask, why are you all so obsessed with her?
The Right is not a fan of women who "speak their minds." I think the Healthcare thing was a big start and the legend grew from there. The quote, "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" didn't help either, even though it was true.
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Old 11-03-04, 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
What is the right's obsession with Hillary Clinton? She's never going to be president and, unless things change radically over the next four years, she's not going to make a serious run for it (she may form an exploratory committee and may even put her name in the ring, but she won't be a serious candidate during the primaries, let alone the general election).

Hell, if Rudy desides to make the run for the Senate he was going to make in 2000, she might be out of your hair in 2006.

So again I ask, why are you all so obsessed with her?
I think your right, but Hillary is such a media darling that you have to think of her. Just like McCain, except McCain actually has a long political career and some seniority in the republican party.

When some networks were talking about Daschle's replacement Hillary's name was the first to come up. Of course all the pundits present laughed and said it wouldn't happen, but they had to bring her name up.
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Old 11-03-04, 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by dtcarson
Abortion illegal in most cases.
Been there, done that. We have a very short collective memory.

Originally posted by dtcarson
Pushing the *freedom to bring* religion into schools.
Sounds good on the surface, right? Why does this only work if it is your religion? Would you still believe it if the religion is Islam? What about Satanism? "All hail our dark master."

The only real reason to bring religion into public schools is so that the evangelicals can proselytize your children. Their kids already get it at home. They want access to other people's children.

Originally posted by dtcarson
Creating Patriot Acts, which efficiently bring together legislations that *already existed* into one relevant document.
I ddin't realize that being jailed without access to a lawyer existed anywhere within our legal system.

Originally posted by dtcarson
States legalizing drugs...Hmm, I'm on the fence about that. I'm for things like crack and heroin and acid to be illegal, but I'm on the fence about MJ.
You have to legalize them all for it to work. Once everything is legalized, the criminal element leaves the scene and drugs become a public health problem. This is preferable to the criminal enterprise it is now. Remember prohibition? Once again, we have a very short collective memory.
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Old 11-03-04, 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by wendersfan
If the Democrats were smart they'd groom Evan Bayh to be their next nominee. They won't, for one specific reason. I bet some of you might know what that reason is...
Seriously, what reason are you referring to?
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Old 11-03-04, 01:25 PM
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Pushing the *freedom to bring* religion into schools.
Why does religon have to be in schools? This is a very foreign concept to me for someone who was schooled in Illinois. In fact, it's an insane concept.
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Old 11-03-04, 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by mjlukich
Seriously, what reason are you referring to?
In 2000, when Bayh was considered as a possible running mate for Gore, his mixed record on abortion rights drew criticism from organizations such as the abortion rights group NARAL Pro-Choice America.
Source:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...-09-bayh_x.htm
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Old 11-03-04, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by wendersfan
If the Democrats were smart they'd groom Evan Bayh to be their next nominee. They won't, for one specific reason. I bet some of you might know what that reason is...
a stupid sounding name that doesn't even sound REMOTELY presidential?
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Old 11-03-04, 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by RoyalTea
a stupid sounding name that doesn't even sound REMOTELY presidential?
Yeah, because his dad's name was a lot more ordinary sounding.
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