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"If Kerry wins, it's because kids are afraid of the draft ..."

Old 11-02-04, 03:32 PM
  #26  
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Obviously, there is no need or want for the draft at this moment in time. If we were to engage in another major conflict (which is a much higher likelihood under a Bush presidency) where would the troops come from? Opinions change rapidly based on need. If the need is dire enough, the Congress will vote like lemmings. Did you guys learn anything from the way the Congress voted for this bogus war?


Some of us are skeptical. How many wars/conflicts or whatever P.C. name the government slaps on them, can you have before you are forced to have more troops? I don't believe you can pacify Iraq with more troops. How many pre-emptive invasions do you have before you are forced to move to a draft? The military is stretched thin as it is.
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Old 11-02-04, 03:33 PM
  #27  
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Originally posted by Bushdog
Who said this of any importance?
I'm not sure whether you consider him important, but I'm pretty sure I heard Jesse Jackson state on Larry King last night that based on what his group (Rainbow Push Coalition) (?) is hearing, this belief (Bush will reinstate draft) is one of the (few stated by him) reasons he is expecting a much-larger-than-usual turnout among (especially young) African-Americans.
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Old 11-02-04, 03:41 PM
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If anyone should be concerned about the draft it should be the parents with kids in high school. IF a draft is necessary it will be another 5 years at least, imo. I don't think it will happen at all.
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Old 11-02-04, 03:46 PM
  #29  
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wendersfan,

Good point.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:05 PM
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My girlfriend said something along the lines of..."well I don't want you to get drafted" when trying to convince me to vote for Kerry on the phone today. I became very frustrated.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:11 PM
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Yes, quite a few younger people are voting because of the draft. I know at my work I've spoken to a few people around 20, 22 years old who've stated they're voting for Kerry because Bush will reinstate the draft. Of course, I respond "wtf are you talking about that's utter bullshit." Then explain some things and they go "oh."

But then, someone else followed up with "Bush has an IQ below 100 I saw it in the news." Then when I retorted that that was the dumbest news piece I'd ever heard, he called me "blind." I swear, people will believe anything. It works for the other side also, but I just happen to know far more ignorant Kerry supporters (I am in California).
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Old 11-02-04, 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by msdmoney
My girlfriend said something along the lines of..."well I don't want you to get drafted" when trying to convince me to vote for Kerry on the phone today. I became very frustrated.
You find it frustrating that she doesn't want you to get drafted?
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Old 11-02-04, 04:31 PM
  #33  
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If _____ wins = It's because _____


It was my understanding there would be no math (or math formulas) involved?

A 30 year old african-american woman I was on line behind on Friday was saying that she was voting Kerry because she was "of draft age", and was trying to convince a young african-american gentleman of about 20 about 2 people back to not leave (he wanted to go home and study), that he couldn't afford to put off voting.

Was interesting to observe...
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Old 11-02-04, 04:33 PM
  #34  
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I just heard a local radio news break about the Get-Out-The-Vote movement around the state universities. They interviewed a student who said he was very concerned this year, unlike previous years, because there are more issues at stake for his age group "like the draft".

How do these idiots even get into college?
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Old 11-02-04, 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by wmansir
I just heard a local radio news break about the Get-Out-The-Vote movement around the state universities. They interviewed a student who said he was very concerned this year, unlike previous years, because there are more issues at stake for his age group "like the draft".

How do these idiots even get into college?
same way a C-student Bush could get into Harvard: $$$$$
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Old 11-02-04, 04:41 PM
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and people don't like my idea of requiring a test before you can vote
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Old 11-02-04, 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by wmansir
I just heard a local radio news break about the Get-Out-The-Vote movement around the state universities. They interviewed a student who said he was very concerned this year, unlike previous years, because there are more issues at stake for his age group "like the draft".

How do these idiots even get into college?
Why is someone an idiot for worrying about the draft?

There are two seperate issues here.

1. Whether the party in charge wants the draft.

2. Whether the party in charge will need the draft.

In reference to issue one neither party wants the draft, though the democrafts are implying that the republicans do want it. This is a non-issue in my opinion, and if you are voting because you think one party WANTS it then you are an idiots.

Issue two is a different thing entirely. If you are voting because you think one party has policies in place that will stretch us so thin that we'll NEED a draft, well that is as good a reason as any to vote.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:46 PM
  #38  
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The risk of a draft are there but Kerry's side was playing it up for political gain "."

I think it helps but its a small part.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:47 PM
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well since a democrat submitted a bill to congress to reinstate the draft, can we assume some democrats want the draft?
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Old 11-02-04, 04:51 PM
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I'm sure someone here can correct me if I'm wrong on this... If I remember correctly, the dem who put forth the draft bill did so because he/she feels that the current volunteer army doesn't reflect a cross-section of socio-economic and racial groups in the US. He/she feels that a draft would spread out the burden, and in essense make our elected officials less likely to start wars since their kids could be the ones whose butts are on the line.

I may well be remembering that wrong though.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:55 PM
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Young voters do think Bush will re-instate the draft and they will break for Kerry bigtime. That will be a major storyling tonight (the huge turnout by young voters for Kerry).

The honest truth is that the war isn't going well. We have lost 10% of our force (1100+ killed and 10,000 wounded and out of action). We have Iran and Syria and North Korea on the docket. We haven't found Osama and have only 15,000 troops in Afghanistan.

I would assume that Bush will try to win the war in Iraq if re-elected. It is obvious there isn't enough troops. Bush considers this a long term ongoing war against terror. With no massive enlargement of troop levels we have no chance. That is the bottom line. Current recruitment is running 50% behind in the military. I don't see people lining up to go to Iraq for extended ongoing duty.

I have a Masters degree and got a perfect sat score (twice). The kids that believe it aren't dumb, they just don't trust Bush. I honestly believe that there is a 50/50 chance Bush would re-instate the draft (with a Republican congress) if re-elected. That happens when you piss off a country and no one believes you.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:57 PM
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you think there is a 50/50 chance?
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Old 11-02-04, 05:00 PM
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I work with a ton of 18-25 year olds and the majority are scared to death of this draft talk. It is pretty sad actually.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:03 PM
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Laugh all you want. You have given me crap in many threads for a long time.

My point is that the kids that are voting certainly aren't dumb. In fact, the ones that believe the draft are among the smartest.

I just said it above. In my mind, Bush's war (the Bush doctrine) can't be won under current circumstances.

A draft would always be re-instated by a 2nd term president that has no election to worry about. I don't see Dick running in 2008, so the draft would be someone else's problem in 2008. Surely you would agree with that.

Again, yes a 50/50 chance with Bush for 4 more years. Feel free to feel differently, but many people disagree. And they are voting.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:06 PM
  #45  
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Originally posted by Son-volt
Why is someone an idiot for worrying about the draft?

There are two separate issues here.

1. Whether the party in charge wants the draft.

2. Whether the party in charge will need the draft.

In reference to issue one neither party wants the draft, though the democrats are implying that the republicans do want it. This is a non-issue in my opinion, and if you are voting because you think one party WANTS it then you are an idiots.

Issue two is a different thing entirely. If you are voting because you think one party has policies in place that will stretch us so thin that we'll NEED a draft, well that is as good a reason as any to vote.
You know, New England needed a 15 point touchdown to win on Sunday. But it wasn't going to happen, just like congress re-instating the draft isn't going to happen.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:06 PM
  #46  
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Originally posted by johnglad
Young voters do think Bush will re-instate the draft and they will break for Kerry bigtime. That will be a major storyling tonight (the huge turnout by young voters for Kerry).

The honest truth is that the war isn't going well. We have lost 10% of our force (1100+ killed and 10,000 wounded and out of action). We have Iran and Syria and North Korea on the docket. We haven't found Osama and have only 15,000 troops in Afghanistan.

I would assume that Bush will try to win the war in Iraq if re-elected. It is obvious there isn't enough troops. Bush considers this a long term ongoing war against terror. With no massive enlargement of troop levels we have no chance. That is the bottom line. Current recruitment is running 50% behind in the military. I don't see people lining up to go to Iraq for extended ongoing duty.

I have a Masters degree and got a perfect sat score (twice). The kids that believe it aren't dumb, they just don't trust Bush. I honestly believe that there is a 50/50 chance Bush would re-instate the draft (with a Republican congress) if re-elected. That happens when you piss off a country and no one believes you.
too bad Charles Rangel isn't my representative. I'd vote for him just so he can reintroduce his draft bill and get you into the military along with the kids that think bush is for the draft when only the democrats have pushed for it.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by johnglad
Laugh all you want. You have given me crap in many threads for a long time.

My point is that the kids that are voting certainly aren't dumb. In fact, the ones that believe the draft are among the smartest.

I just said it above. In my mind, Bush's war (the Bush doctrine) can't be won under current circumstances.

A draft would always be re-instated by a 2nd term president that has no election to worry about. I don't see Dick running in 2008, so the draft would be someone else's problem in 2008. Surely you would agree with that.

Again, yes a 50/50 chance with Bush for 4 more years. Feel free to feel differently, but many people disagree. And they are voting.
i doubt if the military chiefs are for the draft. the biggest thing they hate is kids in the military that don't want to be there. if there is a draft it will create too many problems.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:09 PM
  #48  
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honestly believe that there is a 50/50 chance Bush would re-instate the draft (with a Republican congress) if re-elected. That happens when you piss off a country and no one believes you.
There's not a snowball's chance in hell that the draft will be reinstituted by Bush or Kerry, much less 50/50.

Reasons:

1. Bush doesn't want the draft reinstituted.

2. Congress doesn't want the draft reinstituted.

3. The vast majority of the American people don't want the draft reinstitued - about 80%, I believe.

4. Most of the military leadership don't want the draft reinstituted.

Even if Bush is re-elected with a Republican Congress, it takes 60 votes in the Senate to get something as controversial as the reinstitution of the draft passed.

Let's not try peddle this red herring nonsense.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:18 PM
  #49  
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www.enjoythedraft.com

Yes, they're serious... (albeit purposefully snarky...)

Their FAQs page...
Frequently Asked Questions

DOES GEORGE W. BUSH REALLY WANT A DRAFT?

Personally, probably not. He avoided the draft back when he was eligible, so it's not likely he'd suddenly be "for" a draft now.

THEN WHY WOULD HE BRING BACK THE DRAFT?

Bush has done a great job of starting wars to keep our troops busy -- 2 and counting so far, with Iran, Syria and North Korea coming soon to a war theatre near you! In fact, he's been so successful at starting wars, that we barely have enough troops to go around, even with the backdoor draft of forcing reservists to serve longer involuntarily, extending Marine enlistments involuntarily, and calling back once-retired soldiers to duty, involuntarily. Bush thinks starting wars is so much fun, he wants to share the excitement of war with all of us.

The Draft. Think of it as a Bush job creation program. A job offer you can't refuse.

YOU KEEP USING THE WORD "INVOLUNTARILY." I THOUGHT WE HAD AN ALL-VOLUNTEER ARMED FORCES.

We did. But remember how last year Bush flew onto that aircraft carrier and announced "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq? Well, we now have an "all-volunteer" military like our military had an "all-out" victory in Iraq 18 months ago.

BUT BUSH SAYS HE WON'T INSTITUTE A DRAFT. WHY SHOULD WE THINK HE WILL?

Because Bush says he won't institute a draft.

IS IT POSSIBLE HE JUST WON'T CALL IT A "DRAFT"? LIKE INSTEAD HE'LL GIVE IT SOME ORWELLIAN DOUBLESPEAK NAME?

Beware the "No 18-to-25-Year-Old Left Behind Act."

SERIOUSLY?

No, just kidding. Actually, it's Americans from age 18 to 34 who can expect to enjoy the new, improved, co-ed draft. That's right! Girls can enjoy the new draft, too. And, lucky folks with special skills like languages, computers, and healthcare can enjoy the draft up to the age of 44.

(Lucky dogs.)

DOES THAT MEAN WE MIGHT SERVE WITH JENNA AND BARBARA BUSH?

Absolutely. The Bushes would never use their connections to influence where or how a family member serves.

OK, SO BASED ON HIS RECORD, BUSH SEEMS LIKELY TO REINSTATE THE DRAFT. BUT ARE YOU IMPLYING THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH JOINING THE MILITARY?

Absolutely not. On the contrary, fighting to make America safer is perhaps the noblest endeavor an American can undertake. Unfortunately, the Bush administration hasn't quite figured out how to combine the "fighting" part with the "make America safer" part.

Last edited by adamblast; 11-02-04 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:19 PM
  #50  
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Originally posted by classicman2
Whether they be Republican or Democrat - there's no support for the draft. (sadly IMO)

I say again - there's probably not 20 votes in the House for its reinstatement.

There are none, that I can think of, in the Senate.
Rangel voted against his own bill. Only two Democrats (actual only two people, they were both Democrats) voted to reinstate the draft, and I'm not sure if they were on his co-sponsor list. 400 Congressment voted against. Hastings has the same bill in the Senate, and it won't come out of committee.

Just wanted to emphasis the people who had a bill to reinstate the draft in Congress are all Democrats. If kerry wins, you young guys will serve.
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