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It's time to vote Libertarian. Oh wait, no it's not. An opinion piece by me.

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It's time to vote Libertarian. Oh wait, no it's not. An opinion piece by me.

Old 11-02-04, 12:30 AM
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It's time to vote Libertarian. Oh wait, no it's not. An opinion piece by me.

Okay, I made a point to myself to not vote strictly along party lines in my first election. I looked at candidate statements before selecting one, putting aside their designated party.

I'm a fan of a many Libertarian ideals. My grandfather is a bigtime libertarian supporter, I get all his mail and it leads to a lot of good discussions.

The problem is, their candidates (here in Washington at least) really suck at this. Their statements are so outlandish and unhelpful I don't even know where to begin.

Most of the Rep/Dem candidates offered statements outlining what they have done, what they intend to do, and what they stand for. Then there are the Lib's. 90% of them are asking me to vote for them because a 2 party system is bad, so vote Libertarian. Great. What are YOU gonna do for ME? I'm scared to death that if one of these guys was elected they would freak out and call their mom to ask how to run their position. They tell me nothing positive here and I'm not going to take even more time researching all of the candidates for these lesser positions in the state government when some good choices are already clear.

One of them believes we should pull all of our foreign troops to within our borders. Yeah, that's really feasable right now. While that is the ideal in a utopian libertarian society, you are simply going to have to be a little more moderate and realistic than that if you want my vote.

These self-written libertarian candidate summaries are an utter disgrace. The party, with its youthful experience, is campaigning at a 2nd grade level. Yes, one of their points is to be different from the big 2. But you're not going to win votes if "different" also means unreasonable.

Thanks. I'm voting all Rep/Dem this time around.
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Old 11-02-04, 12:37 AM
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Right with you Thor. I've been a registered Libertarian for 8 years now but not voting Lib this time around, nor am I even voting on most of the state measures the way my party recommends. I believe in smaller gov't but not at the risk of our safety. There's the rub.
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Old 11-02-04, 08:52 AM
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Re: It's time to vote Libertarian. Oh wait, no it's not. An opinion piece by me.

Originally posted by Thor Simpson
Their statements are so outlandish and unhelpful I don't even know where to begin.
That sums up most, if not all, 3rd party candidates for me.
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Old 11-02-04, 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by General Zod
Right with you Thor. I've been a registered Libertarian for 8 years now but not voting Lib this time around, nor am I even voting on most of the state measures the way my party recommends. I believe in smaller gov't but not at the risk of our safety. There's the rub.
Reminds me of the quote

"They that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Ben Franklin
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Old 11-02-04, 09:31 AM
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I hold several libertarian views, but I honestly don't see myself ever voting for a Lib. candidate.
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Old 11-02-04, 09:32 AM
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You picked the wrong election to vote Libertarian. Badnarik is a nutjob. You should picked '80, '88, '96, or '00 to vote Libertarian.
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Old 11-02-04, 10:29 AM
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That's what I'm saying. If this is suposed to be a legitimate party, they have to get off their high horses and stop merely spitting idealistic rhetoric. Some of their ideas are <b>very</b> good.

But look... people are critical of <i>John Kerry</i> not being specific in his plans? I hope none of those critics are libertarians. Libertarians are very good at presenting how things <i>should</i> be in a perfect world. The problem is, some of their ideas, if put into place cold turkey, would be outright catastophic for our nation. If we had a candidate with Libertarians ideals who was a little more moderate and presented a platform for how we would move us <i>in the direction</i> of that ultimate goal... well, there you might have something. Get the vote out.

Unfortunately, being Libertarian and Moderate at the same time is nearly impossible.

They dream of the stars but would never fund a rocket. Because <i>we can fly</i> if we all try hard enough! Everyone blow downwards at the same time! Except China.
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Old 11-02-04, 10:38 AM
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The only Presidential candidates on my ballot were Bush, Kerry and Badnarik. Then there was the write-in vote.
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Old 11-02-04, 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
You picked the wrong election to vote Libertarian. Badnarik is a nutjob. You should picked '80, '88, '96, or '00 to vote Libertarian.
David Bergland in '84 was fine. Andre Marrou in '92 was embarrassing. Also, the first two, John Hospers ('72) and Roger McBride ('76) were pretty good. I thought Harry Browne ('96 and '00) was a disappointment. There were a lot of "irregularities" in his campaigns (see back issues of Liberty magazine).
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Old 11-02-04, 11:10 AM
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For the first time in memory I actually know people voting libertarian. Granted I'm paying a lot more attention this time than in past years, but I know three different people voting for Badnarik. All are dissatisfied former Bush voters.

I personally don't know a thing about Badnarik andI don't think the libertarian platform of beliefs is viable, but good for him/them for at least opening a few eyes.
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Old 11-02-04, 01:20 PM
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I can echo some of the comments here. I agree with the viewpoints, but their way of the getting there is completely unrealistic. Plus, they have terrible candidates. I was looking at the party's Presidential candidates bios and websites... I believe of those running for the spot was a school bus driver! Now, I don't believe you should have to be rich to be president. But you should at least have some sort of leadership experience! And this guy was actually listed on the party's official site as a possiblility before Badnarik was selected. Not that Badnarik is ideal, either.

All that said, I still might vote that way just because the race won't be close in my state and I really don't care about either 'major' candidate... just in the hopes that it'll encourage 'real' third party candidates to emerge in the future.
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Old 11-02-04, 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Bushdog
Reminds me of the quote

"They that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Ben Franklin
I knew someone would bring up that quote. It's out of date and unrealistic in today's world. If Ben were here now he'd agree with me
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Old 11-02-04, 01:34 PM
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I ended up voting for one Libertarian. It seems like the state auditor shouldn't be a Republican or a Democrat.
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Old 11-02-04, 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Bushdog
Reminds me of the quote

"They that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Ben Franklin

To me this quote would apply to internal security, not external security. Are people under the impression that the LP wants to disband the military? The LP and libertarians in generally certainly believes in a strong national defense. The operative word being 'defense.'
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Old 11-02-04, 03:57 PM
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What I have to ask is, what happens politically if a Libertarian wins. I mean, where does his party go in Washington?
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Old 11-02-04, 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
What I have to ask is, what happens politically if a Libertarian wins. I mean, where does his party go in Washington?
Are you talking about as President? Because, if not, for example, there's already one Socialist (big 'S') elected to congress. For organizational purposes, he's a Democrat. Actually, his voting record is indistinguishible from someone like Barney Frank's or Jerrold Nadler's.

The real question is what would happen if, say, a dozen Libertarians were elected to Congress. That would complicate things, possibly.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:21 PM
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Yeah, that's what I meant. If we had several Libertarians elected, things could get interesting.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Yeah, that's what I meant. If we had several Libertarians elected, things could get interesting.
Before we can have several of them elected, several of them have to have a bats chance in hell of even making an election close. We're not remotely there yet.

But yes... it would be interesting and maybe someday we'll get there.
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Old 11-02-04, 04:57 PM
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Keep in mind that there is a libertarian already serving in Congress (and is running unopposed in 2004).
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Old 11-02-04, 05:30 PM
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I'm a rational Libertarian, and it sometimes precludes me from voting Libertarian as a result. I guess because most Libertarians have no chance of winning, the sane ones don't even bother.

Which sucks, since the one third party that could appeal to a large cross-section of America fails to garner anywhere near the popularity they could enjoy as a result.
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Old 11-02-04, 08:33 PM
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I voted libertarian for quite a few of the lesser positions (and voted dem for the others).

I'd like to see some elected - their wildly idealistic methods/goals are interesting in a crazy sort of way. I've always said a few in positions of power would be good to help stir things up a bit.
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