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China criticizes the Bush Doctrine

Old 11-01-04, 03:09 AM
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China criticizes the Bush Doctrine

well...yet another reason to vote Bush
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Old 11-01-04, 03:31 AM
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Re: China criticizes the Bush Doctrine

Originally posted by IMRICKJAMES
well...yet another reason to vote Bush
China Lays Into 'Bush Doctrine' Ahead of U.S. Poll

Sun Oct 31,10:07 PM ET

World - Reuters

BEIJING (Reuters) - On the eve of the U.S. election, China laid into what it called the "Bush doctrine," said the Iraq (news - web sites) war has destroyed the global anti-terror coalition and blamed arrogance for the problems dogging the United States worldwide.



The searing article was as close to a position on the U.S. presidential election as China has come, but it made no mention of Massachusetts Senator John Kerry (news - web sites), the Democratic Party's challenger to President Bush (news - web sites) in Tuesday's presidential contest.

The United States was dreaming if it thought the 21st century was the American century, wrote Qian Qichen, one of the main architects of China's foreign policy, in a commentary in the English-language China Daily newspaper.

"The current U.S. predicament in Iraq serves as another example that when a country's superiority psychology inflates beyond its real capability, a lot of trouble can be caused," Qian wrote.

"But the troubles and disasters the United States has met do not stem from the threats by others, but from its own cocksureness and arrogance."

Qian is a former foreign minister credited with breaking China out of diplomatic isolation after the crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests.

The invasion of Iraq "has made the United States even more unpopular in the international community than its war in Vietnam," he said.

"The Iraq war has also destroyed the hard-won global anti-terror coalition," Qian added, saying it had caused a rise in terrorist activity around the globe and widened a rift between the United States and Europe.

"END OF EMPIRE"

The U.S. strategy of pre-emptive strikes would bring insecurity and ultimately the demise of the "American empire," Qian said.

Analysts have said China has a slight preference for the incumbent in the U.S. election, realising that U.S. policy toward China has changed little from administration to administration.

But China, growing in economic and political influence on the world stage, has expressed its aversion to Bush's unilateralist tendencies and sided with France and Germany in opposition to the Iraq war.

"It is now time to give up the illusion that Europeans and Americans are living in the same world, as some Europeans would like to believe," Qian said.

The United States had not changed its Cold War mentality, Qian said.

"The 21st century is not the 'American century'. That does not mean that the United States does not want the dream. Rather it is incapable of realizing the goal," he said.

After the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, the "Bush doctrine" created "axes of evil" and pre-emptive strategies.

"It linked counter-terrorism and the prevention of proliferation of so-called rogue states and failed states ... It all testifies that Washington's anti-terror campaign has already gone beyond the scope of self-defense."

-------------------------------------------------
Perhaps you're mentioning this article? Call me a bloody communist but I can't disagree with much of anything that they're saying in this article. Although I would have to add quite a few side-notes. \

One would have to read into the emphasis of an end to an 'American' empire. With its population and economic power and momentum, I've read many editorials and opinion pieces that the Chinese will hold the power of the next great empire. Based simply on those two aspects I cannot argue with that. However, I still view the Chinese as I do the Middle East (even though I hold more liberal values in this polarised political climate), that their culture/history/language are very exclusive. Even through Bush, who I vehemently disagree with, do not feel that he holds nor do his supporters an exclusive mentality. There is an inclusive mentality inherent in all Americans to its culture/history/language that perhaps will never again be duplicated on earth. Having the 'power' but being exclusive will not have the same strength. Even through Europe's/the U.S.'s differences and how Bush has polarised these, there's a sense that Europe and much more of the world really isn't so far off of these exact same ideals.

China cannot duplicate this. China tries to further take advantage of this political riff which one should be suspicious of. (and for those who don't know, any journalistic i.e. 'editorial' pieces come stamped and approved by the Chinese government itself) China does have the ultimate Trump card and can play it well, especially with countries like France. To me, China really has a 'win-win' hand with Europe and the US and China will work harder in its advantage to further polarise the US and Europe.

Back to a main point though, as we should see though, if not already demonstrated by Vietnam, that inclusivity into our culture will never win over every single culture in the world.

I do believe the notion that some cultures/nations so insteeped in hundreds if not thousands of years CANNOT and CAN NEVER be changed especially by foreign influence (FURTHER. FURTHERMORE by violence). The Middle East is an example to this. This false NAIVETE, that if we give them 'freedom' that after these thousands of years will know what to do with it, is ignorant at the best and a lot worst at least. If one should choose Bush, one must prove this 'change', this revelation of Muslims/the Middle East how our way of freedom is better for them. If one cannot at this point, and this should be evident, than the thousands of American lives lost in violence is futile let alone the multiple times of innocent people involved in this.

Last edited by jarsim; 11-01-04 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 11-01-04, 03:44 AM
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I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords. I only hope they remember what being on the receiving end was like when they're on the giving end.
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Old 11-01-04, 03:46 AM
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Yeah, I have to agree with many points the Chinese have said. Don't agree on a few of the points though, but the arrogance is certainly correct.
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Old 11-01-04, 04:11 AM
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I think China best look after its own less-than-perfect affairs, before laying judgement on other countries. There is nothing more arrogant than Chinese rule - just ask any Hong Kongers.
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Old 11-01-04, 10:40 AM
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What made the last century the American century was because of the innovation and resourcefullness of its people and a market system that encourages this. You can have a 2 billion popullation, lots of natural resources, and money pouring in your economy, but if you don't have much else you'll end up with what Russia is having now.
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Old 11-01-04, 10:55 AM
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I spend a great deal of time there (14 weeks last year).

It blows me away how ignorant we are to other countries. Keeping China as a friend should be among our number one priorities.

Plus the critic expressed by this article is the view of far more then the Chinese.


Grimfarrow, care to explain the Hong Kong point? I will be there in a week and go quite often. I have not seen any change for the worse sense the hand over?
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Old 11-01-04, 11:23 AM
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Keeping China as a friend should be among our number one priorities.
I strongly disagree.
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Old 11-01-04, 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by bfrank
Keeping China as a friend should be among our number one priorities.
I know that you do business over there, and perhaps that clouds your judgement, but I firmly believe that Bush screwed up in not removing MFN status post Tiananmen.
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Old 11-01-04, 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Don't agree on a few of the points though, but the arrogance is certainly correct.
"...but from its own cocksureness and arrogance."
What's your take on the "cocksureness" bit then?

I don't know what the heck that word means but I'm now going to use it everytime I disagree with an American:

"Don't you try that silly cocksureness nonsense with me buddy!"
"Typical american cocksureness!"
"You're so cocksure your head will explode!"

Hmmm, ok maybe not the last one.
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Old 11-01-04, 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by bfrank

Grimfarrow, care to explain the Hong Kong point? I will be there in a week and go quite often. I have not seen any change for the worse sense the hand over?
Believe me, things in Hong Kong have DEFINITELY changed for the worse - though they are things that are mostly imperceptible to casual tourists & visitors. Otherwise, why would a million people march for democracy for two years straight? I can give you a whole laundry list of stuff which are less than "ideal", like the new"mandatory" singing of the Chinese national anthem before newscasts - ugh!

When I first moved here and visited China, I thought similarly to you - that China is rapidly changing, and that this signals political change as well. But after 2.5 years, I have to say that things have only gotten worse.

If you're in town, feel free to give me a shout, BTW. As a resident expat, I know every bar in the Soho/Lan Kwai Fong area!
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Old 11-01-04, 11:57 AM
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I am coming on the 12th but only over night and catching the ferry on the 13 morning.

I think its going to take a long time for things to get better in China. But there are two reasons we should be concerned with how we are viewed there.

1- They are on the path to be the worlds next superpower.

2- They make everything we use!

Last edited by bfrank; 11-01-04 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 11-01-04, 12:25 PM
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Hmmm...lemme guess, you're staying a t the Marco Polo and going to Shekou?

So you really haven't been to HK then, if you only stop by for a night! But it's also a Friday night. You actually have to work the next day?
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Old 11-01-04, 12:27 PM
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can someone explain to me the chinese doctrine?
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Old 11-01-04, 12:45 PM
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I wish - I am staying in the Royal pacific

I have had a few times were I have had days to kill or even weekends.

Even when I only have a night I sometimes hike to jordan street market (dvd's ) or through the park just to try and stay up to beat the jet lag.
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Old 11-01-04, 01:25 PM
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Oh, Royal Pacific? Ugh, that bites... I don't care for Jordan district at all, in fact. But there are lots of shops there selling cheap DVDs - and they open late....

I actually don't go out to Kowloon much - I'm very much a Hong Kong island guy. In fact, I live right near Soho, so it's all very convenient for me
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Old 11-01-04, 01:48 PM
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and I'll say, who gives a two-cents fuck what China says.
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Old 11-01-04, 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by bfrank

It blows me away how ignorant we are to other countries. Keeping Russia as a friend should be among our number one priorities.
fixed!
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Old 11-01-04, 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Myster X
and I'll say, who gives a two-cents fuck what China says.
Typical american cocksureness!

See? I knew it woudn't take long before I got to use this! .............
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Old 11-01-04, 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Typical american cocksureness!

See? I knew it woudn't take long before I got to use this! .............
Did you see improvement for human rights in China? Do they give a rat ass what the UN is telling them or the US lambasting their human rights record?
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Old 11-02-04, 02:00 AM
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Do they give a rat ass what the UN is telling them or the US lambasting their human rights record?
Well, they'd probably just laugh at the U.N., since that's the "in-thing" to do for superpower's these days, and it's not like the U.S. is in a position to critisize other countries human rights records these days.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:09 AM
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Hah! So now China is backtracking. Apparently the "Article" was wirrten by the former foreign minister, and supposedly doesn't "reflect" Chinese government's views.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...m/china_usa_dc

China Plays Down Election Eve Barb Against Bush

BEIJING (Reuters) - China sought to play down election eve criticism of President Bush (news - web sites) by a leading architect of its foreign policy, saying Beijing had clarified the issue with Washington.

As Americans prepared to vote in the presidential election, former vice premier and foreign minister Qian Qichen was quoted in the China Daily newspaper on Monday as blaming the "Bush doctrine" for what he called pre-emptive strikes.

"Mr Qian Qichen was not interviewed by the China Daily or other media. He did not write any essays for the China Daily or other media," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue told a news conference.

"The Chinese side will look into the situation," Zhang said. "After the article appeared, we maintained contact with the U.S. side ... We have told the U.S. side of the attitude of the Chinese side," she said.

The article carried Qian's byline and identified him at the bottom of the article as a former vice premier and former foreign minister.

Qian is credited with breaking China out of diplomatic isolation after the army crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests.
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Old 11-02-04, 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by raven56706
can someone explain to me the chinese doctrine?
The Chinese doctrine is don't question the Chinese doctrine or else!!
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