Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

I'm seriously an undecided voter, sway my vote

Old 10-31-04, 04:20 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Shackled
Posts: 35,372
I'm seriously an undecided voter, sway my vote

Yes, a lifelong Democrat, with little respect for GWB is undecided. I started off the election apathetic. I was going to go to the polls for races I cared about but wasn't sure who I was going to vote for, or I thought I would vote Libertarian. But now we're at the 11th hour and here are my general feelings:

-The likelihood of Bush or Kerry winning = 99.9999%
-There is little to no difference in what will happen in our country regardless of who wins
-A Bush victory now means 2X the likelihood of a good candidate next time, since both parties will have an open ticket, since we know that Cheney aint winning any elections.

-All well and nice, but this is the one reason that is making me seriously consider Bush...Kerry has promised to raise my taxes. I usually think both parties steal my money and waste it in different ways, but Kerry has explicitly said he is going to hike my taxes. Somehow I missed that, but when I was out of the country, just about the only thing in English I could watch was CNN Worldwide.

Stunned as I am, if nothing else changes, I think I'm going to do the unthinkable, and vote for GWB. Oh, and I am in a swing state, so while it is still unlikely, my vote could swing the whole thing.
Bushdog is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:36 PM
  #2  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,300


Did I miss a move on your part?
Pharoh is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:36 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 21,762
Just follow your signature and vote for Bush because Schilling said so.

Vote for Bush, so that maybe in 4 years for a possible powerhouse event between Hilary and Rudy Guilani...
raven56706 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:39 PM
  #4  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Posts: 6,677
So, you are saying you make $200,000+

You will be paying the exact same taxes you did during the Clinton era. If you could afford it then, there is no reason you can't afford it now.

You may consider it an offset that Kerry wants to lower health insurance premiums, so that would actually give you more money in your paycheck.

The government can only spend money that it takes in. Bush is spending money he hopes the Government will take in years from now (if you have any children, they will be paying for your tax cuts now). Bush continues to call Kerry a "tax and spend" liberal, which I guess makes a "borrow and spend" conservative.
joshd2012 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:40 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Shackled
Posts: 35,372
Originally posted by Pharoh


Did I miss a move on your part?
Well, I never announced it . Suffice it to say I didn't move too far from NYC, but to a State that's very much in play.
Bushdog is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:47 PM
  #6  
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: In mourning
Posts: 26,300
Originally posted by Bushdog
Well, I never announced it . Suffice it to say I didn't move too far from NYC, but to a State that's very much in play.


I figured as much once you said that. I just thought that once again I alone was in the dark.

If congrats are in order, as I suspect they may be, you have mine.





If you at all desire my thoughts on your topic question, it is that the domestic/social things you truly dislike about President Bush have little to no chance of being implemented.

Last edited by Pharoh; 10-31-04 at 04:52 PM.
Pharoh is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:57 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 21,762
Vote for Bush........on second thought.... think about it clearly because then P diddy will kill you
raven56706 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 04:59 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Shackled
Posts: 35,372
Yeah, that's the crux of my thoughts. I'll wind up better financially, and nothing else substantive will happen in the Country.

On other things, YGM.
Bushdog is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:01 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 21,762
Bushdog.... you made a good choice
raven56706 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:07 PM
  #10  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Posts: 6,677
Since you are voting on money issues, I assume you already know this. How much more money would you be giving to the Gov't with the tax raises?

Edit: I see that there is only a 1% difference.
joshd2012 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:23 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,527
In Oregon, there was a measure to repeal an income tax increase of 1.5% in Multnomah county that was voted in over a year ago. I thought, hey cool, that's close $750 back for me. But then I looked at what would happen. It would have meant a $40-80 million loss in revenues for the state that would have directly hit the schools and healthcare (since the 1.5% increase was earmarked for those). While they do not affect me (no kids, and I'm young and healthy), it would have been devestating for quite a few in Portland. I ended up voting against the repeal.

I DO believe in civic duty. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but I believe that what's good for society is good for the individual. In considering the tax issue, I hope that this is part of your consideration, along with realistically, how much suffering a rollback would cause you.

Bush lowered taxes AND increased spending (a la war). Now we're in record debt. How are we going to pay this back? This is REAL money that we owe. It HAS to come from somewhere because if we don't pay it, our economy is going to take a REAL nosedive that everyone can recognize.
hahn is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:27 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
Re: I'm seriously an undecided voter, sway my vote

Originally posted by Bushdog
Stunned as I am, if nothing else changes, I think I'm going to do the unthinkable, and vote for GWB. Oh, and I am in a swing state, so while it is still unlikely, my vote could swing the whole thing.
Ranger is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:30 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
the money issue is how i broke a lot of the ties in my head on our local candidates. its one of the reasons i leaned bush as well. I seriously considered leaving the slot for President blank. Especially since I'm in a state that doesn't count, it wouldn't have made a difference and it would be my small protest, but in the end I let the fiscal policy be the tie breaker there too

Edit: and i agree with you that there isn't going to be much difference between the two. and if kerry really keeps his tax promises, then my taxes won't be raised much (just dividends), so vote for whoever you want. it won't make a difference
Venusian is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:32 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: the 870
Posts: 21,186
vote for Bush,, who needs leadership?
Bacon is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 05:45 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,990
Stunned as I am, if nothing else changes, I think I'm going to do the unthinkable, and vote for GWB.
You're upper middle-class, and Bush will represent your interests better.
DivxGuy is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 06:39 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,102
OK - Here is a huge difference: how about the fact that in the next 4 years, at least one, and more likely 2-3, Supreme Court justices will step down. If the Republicans retain control of the senate (very likely) then Bush will have no incentive to appoint moderates that could go through an easier confirmation. The Dems are not going to filibuster for 4 years. Bush will owe a huge favor to his right-wing, religious base from the election and will likely appoint judges who will a) take a narrow view of if not overturn Roe v. Wade; and b) uphold tighter restrictions on liberty like the Patriot Act in the name of war on terror.

This, to me, is one of the THE most important reasons to vote for Kerry in the coming election. The make-up of the next Supreme Court will effect this country for 20 years or more.
orangerory is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 06:45 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: KS
Posts: 3,202
Originally posted by joshd2012
So, you are saying you make $200,000+

You will be paying the exact same taxes you did during the Clinton era. If you could afford it then, there is no reason you can't afford it now.
Hell, I could afford a 50% tax rate but it sure would suck and the government would only increase speading since they think they know how to manage my money better than I do.

I hear that Bush wants a consumption tax which will tax only what we buy and get rid of the income tax. He just isn't making a big deal of it right now b/c of the fear that it will be twisted into something that can hurt him at the polls. Sounds great to me, let me keep all my money and have a flat tax on everything that I buy. The rich will be taxed a higher amount since they will be spending more and it will encourage saving and end the IRS as we know it today.
Ketamine is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 06:56 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
OK - Here is a huge difference: how about the fact that in the next 4 years, at least one, and more likely 2-3, Supreme Court justices will step down. If the Republicans retain control of the senate (very likely) then Bush will have no incentive to appoint moderates that could go through an easier confirmation.
A red herring argument

It doesn't make any difference who is president or not. It still takes 60 votes in the U. S. Senate to confirm a nominee.

A simple look at what happened to many of Bush's Circuit Court nominees in the past couple of years tells you that.

BTW: What's your definition of a moderate - the same definition that Charles Schumer has I would imagine. In other words - a raving Liberal.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 07:08 PM
  #19  
Premium Member
 
bfrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 20,623
Pick you number one issue of the ones these two are different on and then pick the one that matches your issue best.

(good to see you)

Hey- I thought you were in NY. Thats not a swing so I guess you moved- NH????
bfrank is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 07:11 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 481
Originally posted by bfrank
Pick you number one issue of the ones these two are different on and then pick the one that matches your issue best.
Umm...I think he did that already, and it was taxes.
rbbrew is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 08:16 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The land of chocolate
Posts: 6,617
If you have a choice between Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber, then vote for Tweedledumb (ie the lessor of two evils).

I guess if you can't choose between Bush and Kerry based on who is the "best" choice, then vote against the guy you'd least like there.

I know that's probably not much help with your decision as to who to vote for, but at the end of the day you need to vote for (or against) the candidate that's best for you and your individual needs.

Personally [if I were an American voter] I would vote for either Bush or Kerry. While voting for a third candidate might give me a nice cosy protest vote feel, I'd seriously hate myself if it came down to a handful of votes and the candidate I least like won.
naughty jonny is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 08:44 PM
  #22  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Shermer, Illinois
Posts: 83
If you need to make a decision, do some research on Partial Birth Abortion.

When you see what that is, and realize that Kerry supports the practice, you'll know who to vote for.
krunchyfrogg is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 08:56 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LurkerDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The People's Republic of Boulder
Posts: 21,998
B-dog, I'm not in the business of trying to sway someone as smart and educated as you. But, honestly, not that you give a shit about what I think, but I am suprised and disappointed if you really think that the only real differences between the 2 is that Kerry will raise your taxes.
LurkerDan is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 09:06 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Kerry will raise taxes if he becomes president.

Bush might come to the conclusion that it's the fiscally sane thing to do to raise taxes on wealthy individuals.

I really don't see any difference on how Iraq is handled regardless of who is president.

The principal problem I have with Kerry is that, IMO, he might just have a tendency to try to foster the idea, if he's president, of installing a McGovern type foreign policy - a type I believe he really believes in.

The principal problem I have with Bush is that he's a Republican.
classicman2 is offline  
Old 10-31-04, 10:00 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,747
Originally posted by Pharoh

If you at all desire my thoughts on your topic question, it is that the domestic/social things you truly dislike about President Bush have little to no chance of being implemented.
Whereas of course Emperor Kerry will steamroll his draconian tax increases right over the Republican Congress.
dork is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.