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No time for Kerry's Europhile delusions

Old 10-25-04, 02:58 PM
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No time for Kerry's Europhile delusions

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...t-steyn24.html

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BY MARK STEYN

Maybe I'm getting old. I've been covering politics for 53 years, and that's just since John Kerry's convention speech. I'm sick of this election, even before the Democratic Party's chad-diviners have managed to extend it to mid-December. These are serious times and the senator is not a serious man. And so we have a campaign that has a sharper position on Mary Cheney's lesbianism and the deficiencies of Laura Bush's curriculum vitae than on the central question of the age.

There are legitimate differences of opinion about the war, but they don't include Kerry's silly debater's points. On the one hand, the Tora borer drones that Bush "outsourced" the search for Osama bin Laden to the Afghans, though at the time he supported it ("It is the best way to protect our troops," he said in December 2001. "I think we have been doing this pretty effectively."). But, on the other, he claims he's going to outsource Iraq to the French and the Germans, though neither of them wants anything to do with it.

As for this Bush-failed-to-get-bin-Laden business, 2-1/2 years ago I declared that Osama was dead and he's never written to complain. There's no more evidence for his present existence than there is for the Loch Ness monster, which at least does us the courtesy of showing up as a indistinct gray blur on a photograph every now and again. Osama is lying low because he's in no condition to get up.

But, even if he weren't, that's a frivolous reductive way of looking at this war. He's not a general or head of state; he can't sign an instrument of surrender, and make all the unpleasantness go away. The enemy is an ideology that appeals to various loose groupings from the Balkans to Indonesia, as well as to entrepreneurial free-lancers like the shooter who killed two people at LAX on July 4, 2002. If Kerry's oft-repeated "outsourcing Osama" crack is genuinely felt, it shows he doesn't get this war. And, if it's just cheapo point scoring, it's pathetic.

Almost everything falls into that category. Iraq's messy. So? What isn't? America has no Colonial Office, no political administrators with decades of experience in far-flung climes; its occupation of Iraq was learnt on the fly, because there was no other way. But the ludicrous defeatism over what's at worst a partial success is unbecoming to a great nation. If the present Democratic-media complex had been around earlier, America would never have mustered the will to win World War II or, come to that, the Revolutionary War. There would be no America. You'd be part of a Greater Canada, with Queen Elizabeth on your coins and government health care.

Speaking of which, if there's four words I never want to hear again, it's "prescription drugs from Canada." I'm Canadian, so I know a thing or two about prescription drugs from Canada. Specifically speaking, I know they're American; the only thing Canadian about them is the label in French and English. How can politicians from both parties think that Americans can get cheaper drugs simply by outsourcing (as John Kerry would say) their distribution through a Canadian mailing address? U.S. pharmaceutical companies put up with Ottawa's price controls because it's a peripheral market. But, if you attempt to extend the price controls from the peripheral market of 30 million people to the primary market of 300 million people, all that's going to happen is that after approximately a week and a half there aren't going to be any drugs in Canada, cheap or otherwise -- just as the Clinton administration's intervention into the flu-shot market resulted in American companies getting out of the vaccine business entirely.

The war against the Islamists and the flu-shot business are really opposite sides of the same coin. I want Bush to win on Election Day because he's committed to this war and, as the novelist and Internet maestro Roger L. Simon says, "the more committed we are to it, the shorter it will be.'' The longer it gets, the harder it will be, because it's a race against time, against lengthening demographic, economic and geopolitical odds. By "demographic," I mean the Muslim world's high birth rate, which by mid-century will give tiny Yemen a higher population than vast empty Russia. By "economic," I mean the perfect storm the Europeans will face within this decade, because their lavish welfare states are unsustainable on their shriveled post-Christian birth rates. By "geopolitical," I mean that, if you think the United Nations and other international organizations are antipathetic to America now, wait a few years and see what kind of support you get from a semi-Islamified Europe.

So this is no time to vote for Europhile delusions. The Continental health and welfare systems John Kerry so admires are, in fact, part of the reason those societies are dying. As for Canada, yes, under socialized health care, prescription drugs are cheaper, medical treatment's cheaper, life is cheaper. After much stonewalling, the Province of Quebec's Health Department announced this week that in the last year some 600 Quebecers had died from C. difficile, a bacterium acquired in hospital. In other words, if, say, Bill Clinton had gone for his heart bypass to the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, he would have had the surgery, woken up the next day swimming in diarrhea and then died. It's a bacterium caused by inattention to hygiene -- by unionized, unsackable cleaners who don't clean properly; by harassed overstretched hospital staff who don't bother washing their hands as often as they should. So 600 people have been killed by the filthy squalor of disease-ridden government hospitals. That's the official number. Unofficially, if you're over 65, the hospitals will save face and attribute your death at their hands to "old age" or some such and then "lose" the relevant medical records. Quebec's health system is a lot less healthy than, for example, Iraq's.

One thousand Americans are killed in 18 months in Iraq, and it's a quagmire. One thousand Quebecers are killed by insufficient hand-washing in their filthy, decrepit health care system, and kindly progressive Americans can't wait to bring it south of the border. If one has to die for a cause, bringing liberty to the Middle East is a nobler venture and a better bet than government health care.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:02 PM
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Thanks for the article, the last paragraph certainly provides an interesting perspective.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:07 PM
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that last paragraph doesn't make any sense. the whole logic of this article is skewed and worthless. just another pro-republican cut and paste thread. i'm out.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:20 PM
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that's not really a valid comparison unless you count how many Americans die of the same thing under our health care system.



dick, if you are just going to threadcrap, stay out of the thread entirely. If you want to discuss the article, please do so.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:48 PM
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C. diff colitis isn't or shouldn't be fatal in the vast majority of causes. If all else fails, removing the colon(in severely ill patients who have toxic megacolon) takes care of it.

Mark Steyn is right on, as usual.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by bhk
C. diff colitis isn't or shouldn't be fatal in the vast majority of causes. If all else fails, removing the colon(in severely ill patients who have toxic megacolon) takes care of it.
Please don't come in here and confuse us with actual knowledge.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by dick_grayson
that last paragraph doesn't make any sense. the whole logic of this article is skewed and worthless. just another pro-republican cut and paste thread. i'm out.
I very very rarely post "opinion" type articles, because they are just that - someone's opinion. In this particular case, however, Steyn is on the mark with my feelings on this election - so I thought i'd post it. I don't think the logic provided therein is skewed and worthless, it's just that you choose to disagree with it. That being the case, out is the best place for you if you don't have any intention of discussing it.
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Old 10-25-04, 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Venusian
that's not really a valid comparison unless you count how many Americans die of the same thing under our health care system.



dick, if you are just going to threadcrap, stay out of the thread entirely. If you want to discuss the article, please do so.
that wasn't a threadcrap. just because you don't agree with my post or don't get it, doesn't mean it does not belong. my point is that it's NOT, as you say, a valid comparison. an unfounded war versus a country with free healthcare has far too many variables. It's an attempt to use the ends to justify the means.

Last edited by dick_grayson; 10-25-04 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 10-25-04, 04:15 PM
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To be fair though, C. diff. colitis is an increasing problem due to antibiotics and an elderly population. Steyn should have left it out of his column.
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Old 10-25-04, 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by dick_grayson
just another pro-republican cut and paste thread. i'm out.
*sigh*

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=392140
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=389484
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=387222
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Old 10-25-04, 06:09 PM
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One thousand Quebecers are killed by insufficient hand-washing in their filthy, decrepit health care system, and kindly progressive Americans can't wait to bring it south of the border.
That's just ignorant... If you want to have any sort of credibility, at least do some research before you post crap like that.
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Old 10-25-04, 06:23 PM
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Iraq's messy. So? What isn't?
That's it? That's one brilliant argument!

America has no Colonial Office, no political administrators with decades of experience in far-flung climes; its occupation of Iraq was learnt on the fly, because there was no other way.
How about doing some research on other "occupations"? How about thinking and planning? How about reading some history and listening to experts who said that Iraqis will NEVER accept being occupied by anyone? How about listening to those who argued that you'd need more troops to win the peace than to win the war? But nope! We had to learn on the fly! There was no other way! This is so idiotic it's mindboggling.

Just imagine someone in the Bush admin saying: "We don't know what the fuck we are doing but we're new at this so we have to learn on the fly!"
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Old 10-25-04, 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by dick_grayson
that wasn't a threadcrap. just because you don't agree with my post or don't get it, doesn't mean it does not belong. my point is that it's NOT, as you say, a valid comparison. an unfounded war versus a country with free healthcare has far too many variables. It's an attempt to use the ends to justify the means.
Nope. Perhaps a mod knows better than you what a threadcrap is. You came in, made your generalization, said you were leaving, and gave absolutely nothing to the thread. Nothing. That is a threadcrap.
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Old 10-25-04, 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by dick_grayson
just another pro-republican cut and paste thread. i'm out.
...for a whole 45 minutes, any way. Did you have to grab lunch?

On topic, I think the mental comparison is interesting (people dieing in one way vs. another and for different reasons) but to say that this is a justification to vote for Bush is more than a stretch.

These are two completely seperate issues that really deserve different discussions. I guess the main point would be: Iraq isn't as bad as Kerry is making it out to be, and his healthcare plan isn't as good as he's making it out to be.
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Old 10-25-04, 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by eXcentris



How about doing some research on other "occupations"? How about thinking and planning? How about reading some history and listening to experts who said that Iraqis will NEVER accept being occupied by anyone? How about listening to those who argued that you'd need more troops to win the peace than to win the war? But nope! We had to learn on the fly! There was no other way! This is so idiotic it's mindboggling.

Just imagine someone in the Bush admin saying: "We don't know what the fuck we are doing but we're new at this so we have to learn on the fly!"

I would never suggest that serious mistakes weren't made, but I don't think a simple studying of past attempts at nation-building would be that enlightening. In fact, I am quite certain that a good number within the Bush administration did the very thing you suggested. Either way, this was a unique situationa that necessitated a good amount of learning on the fly. If there is one common thing that we have learned from past efforts of nation building, it is that money talks. The more that is spent, the more likely success will achieved.
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Old 10-25-04, 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by dick_grayson
that wasn't a threadcrap. just because you don't agree with my post or don't get it, doesn't mean it does not belong. my point is that it's NOT, as you say, a valid comparison. an unfounded war versus a country with free healthcare has far too many variables. It's an attempt to use the ends to justify the means.
your post wouldn't have been a thread crap if it didn't have: just another pro-republican cut and paste thread. i'm out.

next time, leave stuff like that out
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Old 10-26-04, 10:01 AM
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there's a difference, though. I don't just post whatever comes along that happens to be negative bush. If I did, this forum would probably crash from all the threads. I should be allowed to express whether I think something has value or not. It may not be ideal for furthering (what I think is) a negative, propaghandic article. Either way, I'll try to avoid threads like this next time and will try not to be such an asshole.
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Old 10-26-04, 10:03 AM
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Ok, so I guess you have a right to post what you feel is extra important, but others don't. Talk about hyppcritical.

I'm sure that not every anti-Kerry article gets posted either, so what exactly is your point?
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Old 10-26-04, 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by chanster
Ok, so I guess you have a right to post what you feel is extra important, but others don't. Talk about hyppcritical.

I'm sure that not every anti-Kerry article gets posted either, so what exactly is your point?
let it go!!!
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Old 10-26-04, 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by chanster
Ok, so I guess you have a right to post what you feel is extra important, but others don't. Talk about hyppcritical.
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Old 10-26-04, 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by General Zod


now we're even
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