Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Kerry Woos Superman's Wife

Old 10-21-04, 06:26 PM
  #1  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,503
Kerry Woos Superman's Wife

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...el_pr/kerry_10

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) on Thursday accused President Bush (news - web sites) of slowing scientific advancement after earning a special endorsement from the widow of actor Christopher Reeve, a proponent of the embryonic stem cell research on which the president has placed limits.

"The American people deserve a president who understands that when America invests in science and technology, we can build a stronger economy and create jobs for the 21st century," Kerry said during a campaign rally. "But George Bush (news - web sites) has literally ... turned his back on the spirit of exploration and discovery."

Reeve's widow, Dana, said her family has been grieving privately since her husband died Oct. 10. "My inclination would be to remain private for a good long while," she said. "But I came here today in support of John Kerry because this is so important. This is what Chris wanted."

Reeve had lived as a paraplegic since a riding accident in 1995. He had become an advocate for medical research and believed studying embryonic stem cells might unlock lifesaving cures and treatments, Dana Reeve said.

"His heart was full of hope, and he imagined living in a world where politics would never get in the way of hope," she said.

The Kerry campaign said Dana Reeve approached the Massachusetts senator about making what probably would be her only campaign appearance. Another Kerry supporter, former Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites), has been asked to campaign this weekend in Florida, where he is seen as a symbol of an election many Democrats believe the GOP stole from them.

In his remarks at the rally, Kerry said scientific innovation needs political support and that Bush, beholden to special interests, refuses to make investments that benefited everyone.

"On the other hand, he has an extreme political agenda that slows instead of advances science," Kerry said.

In addition to stem cell research, Kerry wants to invest in manufacturing and biotechnology, spur automobile innovations and urge students to go into science with education benefits.

Kerry knew the "Superman" actor for about 15 years through family and activist connections. Reeve left him a long telephone message the day before he died, thanking him for campaigning on behalf of medical research.

His death has since reverberated on the campaign trail, as Kerry battles Bush over the ethics of stem cell research using embryos. Bush restricted federally funded research to lines already existing before his 2001 executive order, a decision criticized by some scientists and research advocates.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican and a heart surgeon, said Thursday that Kerry is wrong when he criticizes the Bush administration and its support of science.

"John Kerry showed today that as the election nears he is not interested in the facts and will say or do anything to gain him a political edge, regardless of the truth," Frist said. "He accused this administration of neglecting science, when President Bush has increase federal research and development funding by 44 percent."

Earlier this month, Frist accused Kerry and running mate John Edwards (news - web sites) of "shamefully trying to use the death of people like Christopher Reeve to promote falsehoods and dishonesty" about Bush's position on stem cell research. The Bush administration points out that he is the first president to provide funding specifically for stem cell research.

Edwards invoked the actor at a campaign event when he said, "If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve will get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."

----

Wow, Kerry has a plan to reduce terrorism to mere nuisance, and now he's a miracle worker, too. This man is amazing. And Edwards is still an idiot.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 06:31 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
Oh man, here we go again.
Ranger is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 06:55 PM
  #3  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,503
LOL. I did it just for you.

Get ready. Kerry and Edwards are about to start a new campaign that says Castro wouldn't have fallen if only Bush would have lifted the sanctions so he could get a walker.
DVD Polizei is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 07:27 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
OK, so Kerry wants to play "all your aborted fetuses belong to me." I don't really care; they're dead. But haven't all the actual experiments involving stem cell tissue turned out badly? They keep talking "promise" but I'm not aware of any success stories.
OldDude is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 07:35 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,747
Originally posted by OldDude
OK, so Kerry wants to play "all your aborted fetuses belong to me."
Say what?
dork is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 07:41 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
Where do you think stem cells are harvested? They also use left over embryos from in vitro fertilization.
OldDude is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 07:52 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,747
Originally posted by OldDude
Where do you think stem cells are harvested?
We're talking about embryonic stem-cell research -- not fetal-tissue research, which is a completely separate subject.
dork is offline  
Old 10-21-04, 08:05 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lower Gum Curve
Posts: 19,044
Originally posted by OldDude
OK, so Kerry wants to play "all your aborted fetuses belong to me." I don't really care; they're dead. But haven't all the actual experiments involving stem cell tissue turned out badly? They keep talking "promise" but I'm not aware of any success stories.
Yes, if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing, and if you can't make it work right the first time, the hell with it.
Jason is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 12:44 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: |-|@><0r [email protected]|)
Posts: 17,214
Re: Kerry Woos Superman's Wife

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) on Thursday accused President Bush (news - web sites) of slowing scientific advancement after earning a special endorsement from the widow of actor Christopher Reeve, a proponent of the embryonic stem cell research on which the president has placed limits.
Nice spin. Sounds like it came from the Rush Limbaugh show.

Christopher Reeve is the poster child for potential cures, but his memory and legacy are not the reasons for Kerry's statement. Kerry has been saying this all along. And he's completely correct, and this is one of the most important but undiscussed issues of this election.

Just one pet peeve:
"But George Bush has literally ... turned his back on the spirit of exploration and discovery."
You mean, he has <i>figuratively</i> turned his back.



- David Stein
sfsdfd is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 01:01 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Great! I'm sure Chris Reeves' wife will join the rest of the C Level Relatives of Famous People For Kerry club. Along with Ike's son.
chanster is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 02:25 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,486
Christopher Reeve's death was clearly just another evil plot by the Democrats so that they could harp even more on Mr. Bush!!
MoviePage is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 02:43 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,777
This just in.... even Arnold supports stem cell research.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html
Michael Ballack is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 04:05 AM
  #13  
Moderator
 
DarkElf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 18,277
Reading the article, I see no mention of how "Kerry Woos Superman's Wife". Nice thread title...
DarkElf is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 04:07 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
Re: Re: Kerry Woos Superman's Wife

Originally posted by sfsdfd
this is one of the most important but undiscussed issues of this election.

- David Stein
Exaggerate much?

Both candiates have discussed the issue before. perhaps not with each other; was the subject not brought up at the debates? Is that where you're coming from?

also, I don't see why this is a 'major' issue for the election. Obviously, people are just more concerned about Iraq, fight against terror, economy, social security, etc.

I trust you won't deny that some Democrats and news reports have made some misleading criticisms of Bush's (adult) stem cell funding record and 'ban.'

I, at least, won't deny Bush's religious motivation for not funding embryonic stem cell research.
Ranger is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 06:05 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 21,761
I see it this way.... they both have their points and sacrificing something to save something will be discussed alot with other scenarios
raven56706 is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 08:37 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
Originally posted by DarkElf
Reading the article, I see no mention of how "Kerry Woos Superman's Wife". Nice thread title...
And no one has pointed out it is now safe to tug on his cape, either.
OldDude is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 08:51 AM
  #17  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,837
Originally posted by OldDude
And no one has pointed out it is now safe to tug on his cape, either.
Sadly, spitting in the wind is still out (I just verified this myself).
Groucho is online now  
Old 10-22-04, 09:04 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Legend
 
chess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 20,804
Originally posted by Jason
Yes, if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing, and if you can't make it work right the first time, the hell with it.
chess is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 09:10 AM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,054
Originally posted by Jason
Yes, if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing, and if you can't make it work right the first time, the hell with it.
I'm not saying that and I don't object to research continuing. I'm just saying it is a very long way from working, and perhaps decades before any paralyzed people walk again. Some of the experiments done too hastily have done more harm than good.
OldDude is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 07:06 PM
  #20  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Edwards later said that if Kerry was elected "we would be able to dig out people like Reeve and cure them."
bhk is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 07:27 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,691
It's quite sad that Kerry is trying to use Christopher Reeve's passing for political gain. I am a big fan of Christopher Reeve, and was stunned by his death, but how Kerry / Edwards are passively blaming his death on the banning of stem cell research, and in turn the Bush administration sickens me.
SuprVgeta is offline  
Old 10-22-04, 07:33 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: |-|@><0r [email protected]|)
Posts: 17,214
Re: Re: Re: Kerry Woos Superman's Wife

Originally posted by Ranger
Exaggerate much?
Not by much. (In fact, I meant to write "underdiscussed," but the quantity of attention actually paid to the issue makes "undiscussed" almost correct.)
Originally posted by Ranger
Both candiates have discussed the issue before. perhaps not with each other; was the subject not brought up at the debates?
Sure, and they both took a pass. Consolidated transcript:
LONG: Wouldn't it be wide to use stem cells obtained without the destruction of an embryo?

KERRY: [rambles about Michael J. Fox and then-alive Christopher Reeve, then...]

I think we can do ethically guided embryonic stem-cell research.

We have 100,000 to 200,000 embryos that are frozen in nitrogen today from fertility clinics. These weren't taken from abortion or something like that. They're from a fertility clinic. And they're either going to be destroyed or left frozen.

[rambling about curing diseases]

I think it is respecting life to reach for that cure. I think it is respecting life to do it in an ethical way.

And the president has chosen a policy that makes it impossible for our scientists to do that. I want the future, and I think we have to grab it.

BUSH: Embryonic stem-cell research requires the destruction of life to create a stem cell. I'm the first president ever to allow funding -- federal funding -- for embryonic stem-cell research. I did to because I too hope that we'll discover cures from the stem cells and from the research derived.

But I think we've got to be very careful in balancing the ethics and the science.

And so I made the decision we wouldn't spend any more money beyond the 70 lines, 22 of which are now in action, because science is important, but so is ethics, so is balancing life. To destroy life to save life is -- it's one of the real ethical dilemmas that we face.

There is going to be hundreds of experiments off the 22 lines that now exist that are active, and hopefully we find a cure. But as well, we need to continue to pursue adult stem-cell research.

I helped double the NIH budget to $28 billion a year to find cures. And the approach I took is one that I think is a balanced and necessary approach, to balance science and the concerns for life.

KERRY:

[pointless sniping about waffling]

But let me tell you, point blank, the lines of stem cells that he's made available, every scientist in the country will tell you, "Not adequate," because they're contaminated by mouse cells, and because there aren't 60 or 70 -- they're are only about 11 to 20 now -- and there aren't enough to be able to do the research because they're contaminated.

BUSH: Let me make sure you understand my decision. Those stem- cells lines already existed. The embryo had already been destroyed prior to my decision.

I had to make the decision to destroy more life, so we continue to destroy life -- I made the decision to balance science and ethics.
That was the only discussion of the issue, in three debates. It's a technical issue that the public doesn't understand, but given its importance, this is still disappointing.

OTOH, even these brief remarks give a clear picture of the candidates' positions. Kerry sees stem-cell research as the future of medical science. Bush sees stem-cell research as killing life. No more really need be said.
Originally posted by Ranger
I don't see why this is a 'major' issue for the election.
This is a major issue because therapies derived from stem-cell research will comprise a <i>very large</i> chunk of new therapies and improvements. America has <i>always</i> been on bleeding edge of medical innovation. This is the first time in the last 200 years when that edge may vanish.

We have already fallen behind far-east countries in this research due to lack of federal research funding, and that is tragic. This will turn <i>catastrophic</i> if it continues for four more years. We will not have some available medical therapies in America - i.e., a large chunk of our medical technology economy that is <i>missing.</i> Patients will be going to other countries for these treatments. And American researchers in the field will have to <i>leave the country</i> to conduct the research.

This is a completely bogus situation. It's almost nonsensical, given America's past as a consistent leader in medicine.
Originally posted by Ranger
I trust you won't deny that some Democrats and news reports have made some misleading criticisms of Bush's (adult) stem cell funding record and 'ban.'
Look, this is a hard issue. Normal politicians are not going to understand it. "Ban" is incorrect, but not actually that far off the mark: federal funding (the <i>vast</i> majority of funding for such research) has been limited to (a) adult stem cells, which are partially differentiated and nowhere near as powerful as embryonic stem cells, and (b) work with a very small number of existing embryonic stem cell lines, many of which have become nonviable, or are so genetically similar that they're useless.

- David Stein
sfsdfd is offline  
Old 10-23-04, 01:18 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
This is a major issue because therapies derived from stem-cell research will comprise a very large chunk of new therapies and improvements. America has always been on bleeding edge of medical innovation. This is the first time in the last 200 years when that edge may vanish.

We have already fallen behind far-east countries in this research due to lack of federal research funding, and that is tragic. This will turn catastrophic if it continues for four more years. We will not have some available medical therapies in America - i.e., a large chunk of our medical technology economy that is missing. Patients will be going to other countries for these treatments. And American researchers in the field will have to leave the country to conduct the research.
I don't understand this rationale at all, is it not true that the federal government spends billions every year on a wide range of research including cancer, heart and neurological diseases, and genetic disorders. All this is insignificant to medical advancement because the lack of federal funding for another area of research, cell stem?

One thing has me very puzzled is if politicans and researchers are saying great advancements can be made from stem cell research, would this not be one hell of an incentive for private businesses to get in the stem cell funding bandwagon?

Also, how long it been since the federal government been involved in funding medical research? I doubt it is 200 years. I feel that I can have an open mind about the stem cell research, but I feel that the subject has become extremely partisan and dangerous to the point that it may force either candiate to wastefully throwing money at something to improve their image - why, just look at the prescription drug coverage plan.

Last edited by Ranger; 10-23-04 at 01:21 AM.
Ranger is offline  
Old 10-23-04, 01:37 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: |-|@><0r [email protected]|)
Posts: 17,214
Originally posted by Ranger
All this is insignificant to medical advancement because the lack of federal funding for another area of research, cell stem?
In a word, yes. Stem cell therapies promise the ability to grow new tissue of any kind, maybe even from the tissue of the same patient. Your nervous system might be coaxed into regrowing a severed spinal column - or even to regrow neurons lost due to brain damage. Your tissue might be used to grow a new organ to replace one in you that's gradually failing. Stem cell therapies really hold the promise of a host of miracles.

We've spent billions on alternative solutions: immunosuppresive therapies, biomechanical organs, organ donation and transplantation. Working therapies are few and riddled with problems.

We <i>need</i> to be working in this area <i>right now.</i>
Originally posted by Ranger
One thing has me very puzzled is if politicans and researchers are saying great advancements can be made from stem cell research, would this not be one hell of an incentive for private businesses to get in the stem cell funding bandwagon?
Wrong time frame. We're probably decades away from the first clinical uses of today's stem cell research, because there's so much that we don't understand. Companies only invest in technologies (medical and otherwise) that are fairly close to deployment - they can't justify the enormous cost otherwise.

To bridge the gap, we need many billions in government funding for many years. We had that before. We don't have that now, and won't have it for another four years of Bush's belief that "science is important, but so is ethics, so is balancing life."

I assert that this position is ridiculously fuzzy-headed. Even if you believe that destroying embryos to promote stem-cell research is the destruction of life, that one-time destruction of life leads to knowledge that will benefit mankind forever. It's a trade-off between destroying a finite set of embryos and curing a broad range of diseases in an infinite set of people. So he's just pandering to his fundamentalist-christian base and pushing an iota closer to challenging <i>Roe</i>, while crippling medical research and vacating a promising area of the economy.
Also, how long it been since the federal government been involved in funding medical research? I doubt it is 200 years.
You misread my post. American medicine has been on the forefront of the field throughout our history, with and without federal funding. But modern research is really hard, and really far from commercialization. Huge amounts of federal funding are absolutely essential.

- David Stein
sfsdfd is offline  
Old 10-23-04, 02:08 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,726
Those are fair points, although I disagree with a few of them.

But you're like the enegizer bunny. You keep going and going...
Ranger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.