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Bush is Pro-BuggyMakers, Pro-Type Writer, Pro-Candle

Old 10-21-04, 05:48 PM
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Bush is Pro-BuggyMakers, Pro-Type Writer, Pro-Candle

"You get the feeling that if George Bush had been president during other periods in American history, he would have sided with the candle lobby against electricity, the buggymakers against cars and typewriter companies against computers,'' Mr. Kerry said.

From the NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/po...rtner=homepage

More scare tactics from the Democrats!

The real question is whether he would be pro-IBM Typewriters from the 1970's!

Last edited by chanster; 10-21-04 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 10-21-04, 05:51 PM
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pollution + oil hungry? Bush would've been more pro-car than Henry Ford.

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Old 10-21-04, 05:59 PM
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I actually see a pretty strong parallel between your frieghtening thread and his scary statement. But I guess you fight fire with fire. (or fear with fear)
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Old 10-21-04, 07:16 PM
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Oh, come on. Bush backs hydrogen, which all the environmentalists considered the cat's meow until Bush backed it.
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Old 10-21-04, 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by OldDude
Oh, come on. Bush backs hydrogen, which all the environmentalists considered the cat's meow until Bush backed it.
Bush rationale [after looking at the internets]:

Water is good for the envirooment. Water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen. Oxygen is good for breathin'.

Cars should drive on water.

Wait'll he discovers helium...then we'll all be gettin' them fancy flyin' cars.

Yee-haw!
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Old 10-21-04, 07:32 PM
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Actually, when analyzed on a "tank to wheels" basis, hydrogen makes some sense and a lot of environmentalists have got out on a limb in favor of it.

Because it is only an energy storage medium, not an energy source, it is unattractive on a "well to tank" basis unless you have cheap primary energy available. So there are clearly issues.

Nonetheless, the greens had tons of hype about hydrogen, and it was going to save the earth from global warming. Then Bush backed it and suddenly, it was worse than coal.
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Old 10-21-04, 10:46 PM
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hmmmm just using two examples, hydrogen fuel cells and increasing the use of broadband, sure shows Bush to be pro-candle

just more ridiculous Kerry statements, but at least this one wasn't from Teresa
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Old 10-21-04, 11:07 PM
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The hydrogen fuel cell stuff is a ridiculous red herring. It will be decades (if ever) before we have an efficient and cost-effective way of manufacturing enough hydrogen to make using it as fuel feasible. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued -- all such promising avenues of research should. But by trumpeting this as his great breakthrough, Bush gets to look like he's doing something forward-thinking about our energy problem while at the same time ignoring more practical steps that can be implemented now to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
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Old 10-21-04, 11:08 PM
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If Bush is such an environmentalist, why did he give huge tax write offs to gas guzzling SUV's and does not back increasing fuel efficiency for new cars?
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Old 10-21-04, 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by dork
while at the same time ignoring more practical steps that can be implemented now to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
Such as ANWR?
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Old 10-21-04, 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by dork
while at the same time ignoring more practical steps that can be implemented now to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
Like wind power? Wind power is stupid. And Kerry and Kennedy don't want those ugly windmills spoiling their million dollar views in Cape Cod (you can search for old threads on Cape Wind Associates if you don't know what I'm talking about.)
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Old 10-21-04, 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nazgul
Such as ANWR?
FUCK!!! You've just revealed my hypocrisy in all its squalor! My arguments have been exposed for the cynical partisan ravings they are! I am slain! Curse you!!!!































































Oh wait, I support drilling in ANWR. Oops.
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Old 10-21-04, 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by OldDude
Like wind power? Wind power is stupid.
No, OldDude, not wind power. Love power. The power that will be generated by all of us loving each other, singing and dancing together, hand in patchouli-scented hand.

Why are all you guys acting like you're talking to Saffron Moonchild? VinVega's post contains a hint as to my position.
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Old 10-21-04, 11:36 PM
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Actually, large gains have been made in fuel efficiency, when measured as brake specific fuel consumption, gallons per horsepower-hour. All that gain has been "spent" in consumers selecting larger, heavier vehicles with better acceperation (higher power to weight ratio). I don't think further large improvements in bsfc are very realistic.

If you want miles per gallon, you are going to have to force people to drive low performance econo-boxes with hard, low rolling resistance tires. Hybrids offer some improvement, but the cost of the additional equipment is higher than the value of gasoline saved. We could introduce diesel, like Europe, at the expense of more particulate emissions and resulting respiratory problems.
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Old 10-21-04, 11:50 PM
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A National Research Council study commissioned by the White House a couple of years ago found that fuel-efficiency can be improved by about a third using currently-available technology and without resorting to "low performance econo-boxes". Granted, the Hummer is out. Maybe that's why Bush ignored it.
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Old 10-22-04, 12:18 AM
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Kerry supports jokes that only one dude knows is racist. Pretty sad.
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Old 10-22-04, 04:32 AM
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kerry always forgets to mention that private fetus stem cell research is still legal, and the gov't is funding research on existing lines and adult stem cells
and how does he connect stem cell research to those other inventions anyway?
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Old 10-22-04, 08:00 AM
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Isn't it Congress who determines the fuel efficiency standard?





what's wrong with hydrogen? we get a bunch of nuclear power plants that split water to hydrogen and then store that as power. its like magic!
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Old 10-22-04, 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Venusian
Isn't it Congress who determines the fuel efficiency standard?
Damned Congress, always butting heads with this President.

If he could get faith based government spending through a Republican friendly Congress, he could get fuel efficiency standards pushed through. It's not that complicated when your party controls all the reigns of power. The fact is that it's not an issue because it would cost big business money.
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Old 10-22-04, 08:27 AM
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i'm all for more fuel efficiency. i just don't see why everything is bush's fault. i mean, has he even vetoed a bill yet?
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Old 10-22-04, 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Venusian
i'm all for more fuel efficiency. i just don't see why everything is bush's fault. i mean, has he even vetoed a bill yet?
It's not 100% Bush's fault, but if certain things were a priority he wouldn't have much trouble shooting them through the Congress.
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Old 10-22-04, 08:50 AM
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he never got his energy plan through congress
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Old 10-22-04, 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Venusian
he never got his energy plan through congress
As I said, it's not 100% his fault, but fuel efficency is not a priority of the Republican leadership in either the Legislative or the Executive branch. I think that's pretty clear. Bush this fall on the stump said higher fuel efficiency is bad because it would cost Michigan auto makers money. I believe he was in the Great Lake state when he said this.

I'll throw you in a bone though and agree that the Dems are hijacked by the super greenie lobby in that they won't agree with drilling in parts of the Mountain region of the US and ANWR and that's probably one of the big things that killed the energy bill.
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Old 10-22-04, 09:13 AM
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what was levine's position on fuel efficiency? i dont know and am curious
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Old 10-22-04, 09:24 AM
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Do you mean Sen. Levin? He has opposed large CAFE increases. I think he is willing to talk about other approaches.

A "miles per gallon" standard can be met either by smaller, lighter weigh cars that require less energy to move or by more efficient engines that provide more energy out per gallon of fuel used. I think Levin would support standards that require better brake specific fuel consumption (as is done for heavy truck). Mileage standards limit consumer choice and favor small imports (only because the US makers don't make very successful small cars).

Reality is that consumers have avoided small fuel efficient cars, and engines that are just adequate for acceleration rather than providing that splendid "shot from gun" feeling.

Dork: Do you have a link to the report you mentioned? I'm not questioning you, I'd like to see if they give a list of proposed technologies and whether the list makes sense.
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