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Bush's Flip Flopping

Old 10-20-04, 10:45 PM
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Bush's Flip Flopping

There's all this talk going around about John Kerry's Flip-Flop record. What people don't understand is that our president is a notorious Flip-Flopper. The
Apparently the Flip Flopping Kerry is being attacked for is the obvious support of Bush's Iraq plans....

So I'm collecting Bush Flip flops. The ones I have so far are just rediculous.... we'll rediculous that people are calling Kerry a Flip-flopper... when these are so obvious....

I'm trying to concentrate on quotes from Bush or Cheney and also only ones that I can point back to a reliable source... so the supporters can't deny them- (but I'm sure they will anyways)

If anyone has any good ones or can fill in some blanks (sources/direct quotes), please help me out.

During the Sept. 30 presidential debate, George Bush repeatedly said that the U.S. president should not send mixed signals to our troops, our friends, and the world. Here are a few Bush quotes from the debate:

"You cannot change positions in this war on terror if you expect to win."…

"I know we're not going to achieve our objective if we send mixed signals to our troops, our friends, the Iraqi citizens."


BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on SOCIAL SECURITY:

"We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus."
-- George W. Bush (March 3, 2001)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20010303.html

BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS
The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on GAS PRICES:

"What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price."
-- George W. Bush (January 26, 2000)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../26/se.02.html

BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS
With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/8332331.htm


BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on OSAMA BIN LADEN:

"I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.' ... All I want and America wants him (Osama bin Laden) brought to justice. That's what we want."
-- George W. Bush (September 17, 2001) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010917-3.html

"I don't know where he (Osama bin Laden) is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."
-- George W. Bush (March 13, 2002) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020313-8.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on LINK BETWEEN SADDAM HUSSEIN AND AL-QAEDA:

"You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."
-- George W. Bush (September 25, 2002) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020925-1.html

"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11."
-- George W. Bush (September 17, 2003) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030917-7.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on the reason for INVADING IRAQ:

"Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it would mean regime change. ... But it's very clear what we intend to do. And our mission won't change. Our mission is precisely what I just stated. We have got a plan that will achieve that mission, should we need to send forces in."
-- George W. Bush (March 6, 2003) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030306-8.html

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. . . . The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder."
-- George W. Bush, Address to the Nation (March 17, 2003)

"Our mission -- besides removing the regime that threatened us, besides ending a place where the terrorists could find a friend, besides getting rid of weapons of mass destruction -- our mission has been to bring humanitarian aid and restore basic services and put this country, Iraq, on the road to self-government."
-- George W. Bush (April 24, 2003) http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ma.transcript/

"The goal in Iraq and Afghanistan is for there to be democratic and free countries who are allies in the war on terror. That's the goal."
-- George W. Bush (August 18, 2004) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...040818-11.html

“[Hussein] retained the knowledge, the materials, the means, and the intent to produce weapons of mass destruction." "And he could have passed that knowledge on to our terrorist enemies”
("Bush Recasts Rationale For War After Report," Glenn Kessler, Washington Post, Oct. 10, 2004)

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on winning the WAR ON TERROR:

"One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can."
-- George W. Bush (April 13, 2004) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...040413-20.html

"I don't think you can win [the war on terror]."
-- George W. Bush (August 30, 2004) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5866571/

"Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]."
-- George W. Bush (August 31, 2004) http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040831-7.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on Human Rights:

"I do know that we expect them (American soldiers held prisoner in Iraq) to be treated humanely, just like we'll treat any prisoners of theirs that we capture humanely. "
-- George W. Bush said March 23, 2003, less than nine months before U.S. soldiers committed atrocities at Abu Ghraib prison. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030323-1.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on U.N. resolution calling for use of FORCE AGAINST IRAQ:

"Yes, we'll call for a vote. ... No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council."
-- George W. Bush said March 6, 2003, a few days before the Bush administration dropped its demand for a vote on the resolution. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/06/bus...ch.transcript/

"We help fulfill that promise not by lecturing the world, but by leading it. Precisely because America is powerful, we must be sensitive about expressing our power and influence. Our goal is to patiently build the momentum of freedom, not create resentment for America itself. We pursue our goals, we will listen to others. We want strong friends to join us, not weak neighbors to dominate. In all our dealings with other nations, we will display the modesty of true confidence and strength."
George W. Bush at USS Regan Ceremony (Mar. 4, 2001).
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20010305.html

"Senator Kerry has also said that if he were in charge he would fight a "more sensitive" war on terror. (Laughter.) America has been in too many wars for any of our wishes, but not a one of them was won by being sensitive."
-- Vice President Dick Cheney in Dayton, Ohio (Aug. 12. 2004).
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040812-3.html



BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on DISARMING NORTH KOREA:

"We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach."
-- George W. Bush (November 15, 2002)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021115-8.html

"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature."
[White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan June 24, 2004]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040623-6.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on FUNDING THE WAR ON IRAQ:

"We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04"
[White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040202-4.html

"I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops."
-- George W. Bush (April 5, 2004)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040505-8.html

BUSH'S MIXED SIGNALS on GAY MARRIAGE:

“[States] can do what they want to do."
George W. Bush Interview on Larry King Live (2000).

Last edited by mmconhea; 10-21-04 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:09 PM
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I didn't even bother to read most of this snoozefest but I did check out the Draft section...every quote you had was how Bush is against having a draft, everyone of them. So how is that flip flopping on the Draft??
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Old 10-20-04, 11:13 PM
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Compared to the old pro, John Kerry...GWB is a whipper-snapper-flipper-flopper.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:16 PM
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part of kerry's problem is that his flip flops happen over the course of days and weeks not years
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Old 10-20-04, 11:18 PM
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Bush has not sent mixed signals on the draft. The quote of him saying "After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain we will not have an all-volunteer army" was just a mistake in his speaking and he corrected himself seconds later. You can get Bush for being a poor speaker, but not for switching sides on the draft issue.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:20 PM
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The draft issue needs to die a silent and immediate draft. This is a complete non-issue - each side baselessly trying to scare the public away from voting for the other.

It's ridiculous... and perfectly representative of this campaign season. "He's gonna draft you!" "No, I won't, but he will!" "No, <i>he</i> will!" It's like a fucking playground.

- David Stein
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Old 10-20-04, 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by TruGator
Bush has not sent mixed signals on the draft. The quote of him saying "After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain we will not have an all-volunteer army" was just a mistake in his speaking and he corrected himself seconds later. You can get Bush for being a poor speaker, but not for switching sides on the draft issue.
Well, there may not be a draft, but one of my buddies I used to work with just told me he was called back into the Army after being out for 4 years. He's only got 8 months left on his commitment, but if they issue Stop Loss, he will be in for 18 months. He's slated to go from a nice Network Admin job to the sands of Iraq. Yeah, yeah, I know you sign up for this shit when you go into the military, but when it happens to a close friend of yours the term backdoor draft really hits home. Poor bastard is so out of shape, I don't know what use he'll be to the Army. He was an NBC (nuclear, chem, bio) specialist though. Maybe he'll find the WMD over there.
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Old 10-20-04, 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by VinVega
Well, there may not be a draft, but one of my buddies I used to work with just told me he was called back into the Army after being out for 4 years.
Most servicemen get to serve in peace, never see combat, and have a good (though physically taxing) job. When you finish, you get scholarships many doors are open to you (especially in the public sector), and the perks are available forever.

Your friend knew (or should've known) the score. You gamble with your life when you sign up. For almost everyone, it's a great deal.

Now, if Bush had changed the terms of the deal somehow - extended the recall period, etc. - then that would be grounds for complaint. But this sounds just like the exercise of an option, which is completely fair.

- David Stein
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Old 10-20-04, 11:42 PM
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David, I just think it shows how thin we really are if we're calling back guys who are 8 months away from the end of their call back commitment. I know he signed the paperwork that authorizes this. It was his choice. If they're up to people right at the end of their after service commitment, how thin are the ranks in reality?
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Old 10-20-04, 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd

Now, if Bush had changed the terms of the deal somehow - extended the recall period, etc. - then that would be grounds for complaint. But this sounds just like the exercise of an option, which is completely fair.
However, as Vin says, we're not exactly getting peak physical specimens this way. Reservists typically train only thirty-nine days a year, and that's mostly spread out to one weekend a month.

Here's an interesting article about that.
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Old 10-21-04, 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd
The draft issue needs to die a silent and immediate draft. This is a complete non-issue - each side baselessly trying to scare the public away from voting for the other.

It's ridiculous... and perfectly representative of this campaign season. "He's gonna draft you!" "No, I won't, but he will!" "No, <i>he</i> will!" It's like a fucking playground.

- David Stein
The Democrats are the ONLY ones trying to scare people with the draft issue.
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Old 10-21-04, 02:30 AM
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VinVega,

I have to agree. When Bush OR Kerry say they would NEVER institute a draft, I wouldn't believe it, and it also implies whichever dumbass gets to be in office for the next 4 years, the military will be strained--which leads to an inferior army--hell, it already is. The only thing saving our asses is our technologically advanced weapons of mass destruction.

Our military is indeed hanging by a thread, and no one wants to face the reality.

And I have to ask:

Why is "the draft" is so unpolitically correct? Is this not part of being an American? Is it not part of keeping our armed forces at a strong count to avoid the unthinkable? Where the hell has society sunk to over the past several decades. I mean, when I was in my late teens and early twenties, I knew it could happen and I accepted it.

Today, it's like it's an unconstitutional action, and how "my poor baby" could be sent off to fight for his country. Oh yes, how dare your little punkass kid go out and actually do something for himself and his country.

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Old 10-21-04, 03:46 AM
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Why was the draft even brought up..... man.....they said no..... give it up
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Old 10-21-04, 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Global Observer
The Democrats are the ONLY ones trying to scare people with the draft issue.
Tell me about it, I had one of those pesky door-to-door people asking me if i was registered to vote, blah blah blah, and i said yep, for Bush, and I could tell she was upset by that (most of those kind of people in this part of Oregon are very liberal) and said, "well, I hope you don't get drafted." And i'm like, don't worry, i'm not [slam door in face]
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Old 10-21-04, 04:54 AM
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Why will a draft never happen?

Because we don't fight wars that way anymore. This isn't WWII, Korea and Vietnam, when boys with 8 weeks training and an M16 get thrown into a meat grinder against other boys with 8 weeks training and an AK47. If we need to increase enlistment, there are better ways. Increase pay, benefits, training bonuses.

The one way to make the Iraq situation turn from being merely difficult to unwinable is to send in thousands of poorly-trained drones that do not want to be there.

The democrats want a draft because that will GUARANTEE public support for the war will disappear. They succeeded in causing an American loss in Vietnam by destroying public support. And they are so intent on regaining power, they're attempting to cause another military defeat, regardless the cost.
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Old 10-21-04, 04:57 AM
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That's pretty funny, I had someone call me the Monday after the second debate saying they were conducting some kind of poll asking who I was voting for and got hung up on when I said Bush.

Bush's "flip-flopping" isn't a issue becuase Kerry has the flip flopping label and the Bush campaign has soo effectively potrayed Kerry as a flip flopper that it's pretty much a wash when it comes to Bush doing it.
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Old 10-21-04, 07:34 AM
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Besides, when's the last time we heard "flip-flopper"? Now that Kerry has finally decided on what his positions are (whether they're consistent with his previous ones or not), Bush has moved on to the "liberal" label.
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Old 10-21-04, 08:25 AM
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Besides, when's the last time we heard "flip-flopper"? Now that Kerry has finally decided on what his positions are (whether they're consistent with his previous ones or not), Bush has moved on to the "liberal" label.
Dick Morris said the same thing on O'Reilly a couple of nights ago.
Michael Moore called Kerry the #1 Liberal Senator yesterday or 2 days ago.
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Old 10-21-04, 09:12 AM
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People that believe a politician say there won't ever be a draft are fooling themselves. All it takes is one primetime speech from the Oval Office with the President telling the American people that he's asking congress to reinstate the draft for the "good of the country." All of the Congress will be shamed into voting for it out of patriotism and here we go. Then all the people who voted for Bush and war in general can put their American flags back on their cars and keep their mouths shut while their kids go fight Muslims for the "our freedom."

I truly hope one of two things: 1.) we stop this ridiculous war or 2.) we bring back the draft.
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Old 10-21-04, 09:20 AM
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you're fooling yourself if you think that the we'll have a draft and that Congress will be shamed into going along with it to fight in Iraq.
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Old 10-21-04, 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Venusian
you're fooling yourself if you think that the we'll have a draft and that Congress will be shamed into going along with it to fight in Iraq.
Who said anything about Iraq?

The Congress was shamed into voting for the Iraq war and duped into voting for the Patriot Act. Most never even knew the contents ...
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Old 10-21-04, 09:27 AM
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then they are stupid. what are we paying them for? what are we paying their staffs for?


well your 1) said this war, i assumed you meant iraq, or did you mean the war on terror? or did you mean them both?



so do you think Bush will reinstate the draft or just some random president in the future
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Old 10-21-04, 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by CRM114
The Congress was shamed into voting for the Iraq war and duped into voting for the Patriot Act.
Is today a Bush = Evil Genius day?
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Old 10-21-04, 09:56 AM
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Ok, I agree the draft one was a Bushism. I removed it.
On the Draft issue though. Those who say on Democracts are using it didn't hear bush say "The only person talking about a draft is my opponent. The only politicians that supported a draft are democrats, and the best way to avoid a draft is to vote for me.”

When the fact is Democracts are aware of the potential need for a draft to sustain a viable army- and they are not afraid to say it may need to happen. Especially if the war continues as it does.
I have scoured the news (I have 2 btohers and several cousins of draft age) for info on the issue. Not once did I find a statement from the democrats along the lines of "vote for us and no draft"
But there are several directly from BUSH - talk about playing on American fears.
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Old 10-21-04, 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by mmconhea
I have scoured the news (I have 2 btohers and several cousins of draft age) for info on the issue. Not once did I find a statement from the democrats along the lines of "vote for us and no draft"
But there are several directly from BUSH - talk about playing on American fears.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?B...&PAG=461&rfi=9

U.S. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., Democratic challenger for vice president, promised a West Virginia mother "there will be no draft when (U.S. Sen.) John Kerry (D-Mass.) is president."



scour harder
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