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What is the "Other Guy" right about.

Old 10-18-04, 04:19 PM
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What is the "Other Guy" right about.

Like it or not, in a little more than 2 weeks, we'll know who the next President is going to be.* Half of us are going to be disappointed -- that's just the nature of things. But nobody is all bad. I think even the most dyed-in-the-wool Dmeocrat can find something Bush does better than Kerry, and the most party-loyal Republican has to admit that Kerry has a leg up on Bush in some area or another. So let's have a thread about what the "Other Guy" is going to do right. No standing up for your own guy, no putting down the other guy -- this thread is all about uniting us, not dividing us.

I'll start: I'm a Kerry supporter, but I think Bush has the better of him when it comes to ANWR. We need to figure out a way to get that oil and natural gas out of there and into our refineries and power plants. Of course, we should do it in a way that's designed to minimize the impact on the environment, the risk of spills, etc., but when push comes to shove, we should be drilling in ANWR.

* Assuming, of course, we don't have a repeat of 2000's six-week election. For the love of God, please no!
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Old 10-18-04, 04:36 PM
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Bush supporter here. For me the biggest area where Kerry has the edge is outsourcing of US jobs overseas. I believe that Bush has done a pretty poor job of offering the right mix of incentives/regulations for businesses to keep jobs here. I work in the computer software industry, and it pains me to see talented developers have their jobs outsourced (and it happens a lot).

During the debates Kerry talked the good talk about turning the tide on that issue, but I question whether he would really follow through (not that I think he favors outsourcing, but it would probably be pretty low on his priority list).
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Old 10-18-04, 04:38 PM
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We need to dismantle Kyoto first.
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Old 10-18-04, 04:38 PM
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Gay marriage.
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Old 10-18-04, 04:44 PM
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The only good thing I can think about Kerry is that he's not Bush What I mean is in the eyes of the world people may see the different face on the US and some of the ABB attitude may die down. Overall though I'm not really sure it'll actually buy much since alot of the general policies that seem to upset people will likely stay the same, if Kerry gets more protectionist about jobs (the outsourcing issue) that'll likely piss off more people than Iraq ever did, finally I'm not sure I really care. What I mean by this is people are always going to find something to complain about the US and we still seem to have plenty of allies and international relations really don't seem to be as bad as some people are making them out to be. So overall I'm not convienced a new face is needed.
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Old 10-18-04, 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by RoboDad
Bush supporter here. For me the biggest area where Kerry has the edge is outsourcing of US jobs overseas. I believe that Bush has done a pretty poor job of offering the right mix of incentives/regulations for businesses to keep jobs here. I work in the computer software industry, and it pains me to see talented developers have their jobs outsourced (and it happens a lot).
I agree with what your saying about outsourcing, but Kerry talks about manufacturing jobs when he mentions outsourcing. Indeed, in the second debate when challenged he admitted that he's not going to do anything about technical jobs going overseas, and that to state that he would would be "pandering."

Ultimately, neither candidate gives two shits about IT outsourcing...but if it's important to you, you should obviously vote for who you think might strengthen the economy more. Strong economy generally = less outsourcing.
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Old 10-18-04, 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho
I agree with what your saying about outsourcing, but Kerry talks about manufacturing jobs when he mentions outsourcing. Indeed, in the second debate when challenged he admitted that he's not going to do anything about technical jobs going overseas, and that to state that he would would be "pandering."
[Neo]Whoa.[/Neo] I must have missed that during the debate (I was out driving for half of it, and I was in and out of the car). That just sucks.

Originally posted by Groucho
Ultimately, neither candidate gives two shits about IT outsourcing...but if it's important to you, you should obviously vote for who you think might strengthen the economy more. Strong economy generally = less outsourcing.
While I agree with you in principle, I didn't see much difference during the "booming" Clinton years. IT outsourcing was still a big problem then (at least for companies in the Pacific Northwest).
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Old 10-18-04, 05:14 PM
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I think this would have made a funny debate question.
I rather enjoy uncomfortable silences.
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Old 10-18-04, 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Contactsport1
I think this would have made a funny debate question.
I rather enjoy uncomfortable silences.
Well, I don't see how it could work as a debate question, since you'd be basically asking each candidate "Which of your policies/proposals is wrong." The obvious answer is "None of them, because if the other guy had it right, I'd steal his." But for those of us who are neither Bush nor Kerry, we hopefully have the perspective to see that both have some flaws, and even if the guy we prefer is right on 99% of the issues, he's wrong on that 1%.
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Old 10-18-04, 05:30 PM
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I was actually going to make a thread like this a couple of weeks ago ("Say something nice about the other candidate"). But I couldn't come up with a double entendre for the title and ultimately decided that such a thread would actually be a good idea, so I did nothing.

Anyway, there are quite a few issues that I agree with Bush on. It's the execution that I have problems with.
































(You'd think Bush would know how to put together a good execution by now.)

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Old 10-18-04, 05:51 PM
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I agree with Bush's proposed increase in funding for space research. I do think that America should have a high orbit space station and a moon base. The potential economic boost that space research represents is a no brainer IMO. That's about the only thing I agree with Bush on.
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Old 10-18-04, 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
Well, I don't see how it could work as a debate question, since you'd be basically asking each candidate "Which of your policies/proposals is wrong."
Like I said... only shorter.
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Old 10-18-04, 05:54 PM
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Bush supporter.

I agree with Kerry on the stem cell research issue. I think we should open the floodgates on it with no silly restrictions. Who knows what we might discover.

But that's about it.
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Old 10-18-04, 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
I agree with Bush's proposed increase in funding for space research. I do think that America should have a high orbit space station and a moon base. The potential economic boost that space research represents is a no brainer IMO. That's about the only thing I agree with Bush on.
Yeah then Starbucks and Walmart could go there too.
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Old 10-18-04, 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
I agree with Bush's proposed increase in funding for space research. I do think that America should have a high orbit space station and a moon base. The potential economic boost that space research represents is a no brainer IMO.
Good one! We need to revitalize our space program.
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Old 10-18-04, 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by JasonF
Good one! We need to revitalize our space program.
I also agree with Bush on this, though I would think that Kerry would be just as in support of the space program seeing as he seems to be much more friendly to science than President Bush.

For something original that I agree with the Prez on? Fuel cells, though truth be told, I don't think he had heard of a hydrogen fuel cell before his SotU speech a few years back and I don't think he's thought of them since. None of his funding plans indicate that he or his administration really cares about alternative fuel options. But giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was serious about actually looking into it, I would support that wholeheartedly.
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Old 10-18-04, 10:48 PM
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I guess you could call me a Kerry supporter:

Bush:
ANWR
Kyoto
Stem Cell research
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Old 10-19-04, 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
I agree with Bush's proposed increase in funding for space research. I do think that America should have a high orbit space station and a moon base. The potential economic boost that space research represents is a no brainer IMO. That's about the only thing I agree with Bush on.
Funny you should say that. Most liberals I know say stuff like, "Fix the homefront first, etc" when I bring this up.

Anyway, Kerry would probably be closer to my position on gay marriage. I don't think we need an amendment. I think we just need to stick with the laws set down by Bill Clinton.


Man, I love to be able to say that and still piss off the liberals
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Old 10-19-04, 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by JasonF
Good one! We need to revitalize our space program.
I agree with Bush about the space program. Getting some people off of this rock, in a hurry, should be one of mankind's great missions right now. Several huge asteroids pass very close to Earth every year - our luck can't last forever.

I agree with Bush about funding AIDS research. This was a big announcement in his SotU address - whether or not it will actually happen is another question. But it at least needs to be addressed.

I agree with Bush that terrorism (along with crime) is better fought by increasing coordination among the security groups: the NSA, CIA, FBI, and state/local groups. I also think he's gone way overboard in the implementation, but I agree with him in concept.

I agree with Bush that education has to be re-thought, from the ground up. This is an <i>incredibly</i> serious problem - in many European countries, it is <i>mandatory</i> that undergraduate students take four full years each of chemistry, physics, and biology. How we'll ever compete with that, as a nation, is a scary thought. I can't judge the effectivenes sof Bush's initiatives, but I'm glad, in principle, that he's moving forward with a sweeping change.

I agree with Bush that the recession in 2001 wasn't his fault, that he inherited that from inevitable circumstances. Early 2003 on is a different story, though.

I agreed with Bush in late 2000/early 2001 that we should not be wasting time as a nation recounting. One recount was justified, given the historic closeness of the election. Anything more than that was merely sowing seeds for partisan disruption.

Of course I agreed with Bush's invasion of Afghanistan. That was a completely appropriate reaction and a good move. I don't necessarily blame him for having missed OBL in that effort, but I do believe we'd have caught him if we hadn't shifted our focus away from Afghanistan.

I agree with Bush's stance on Israel and Palestine, though, perhaps, for very different reasons.

In fact, I agree with Bush on many issues. That's because,as I've written before, the candidates really aren't that far apart on many issues. Both will probably do <i>exactly the same things</i> to prosecute the war on terror, for instance. But there are a number of issues with some latitude, and I agree with Kerry on a surprising number of them.

- David Stein
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Old 10-19-04, 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by sfsdfd

In fact, I agree with Bush on many issues. That's because,as I've written before, the candidates really aren't that far apart on many issues.
Agreed. Did you read Doonesbury on Sunday? Made no sense to me. I have always thought that Gary was a partisan, but smarter than that.
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Old 10-19-04, 02:18 AM
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<img src=http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db041017.gif>


Frame 5
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Old 10-19-04, 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Agreed. Did you read Doonesbury on Sunday? Made no sense to me. I have always thought that Gary was a partisan, but smarter than that.
Hadn't seen it - thanks for posting it - but it makes sense to me. I think that the candidates have done a great job exaggerating the gap between them. Kerry started that trend, and in fact he needed to - it's tough to displace a sitting president - but Bush started doing the same when the polls narrowed (hence the "most liberal Senator" line of bullshit.)

- David Stein
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Old 10-19-04, 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Pharoh
Gay marriage.




With respect to what the above person said about outsourcing. I think Kerry's plan will cause more soutsourcing. The reason all this outsourcing is happening is because of the cheaper cost of doing business in these other countries. Our social programs is a huge part of what makes us uncompetitive. Kerry wants to add more. Do you really think some tax loophole makes much of a difference when we have things like Social Security, Welfare, Food stamps, subsidized housing, affirmativce action, etc that places like India and China don't have. That's a huge cost advantage going for them.

The only thing that I like about Kerry better is that he will undo Bush's federal funding restrictions stem cell cell research and Bush's opposition to gay marriage.
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Old 10-19-04, 09:31 AM
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I agree with Bush's idea that we need to tap our own natural resources instead of increasing our reliance on other politically shaky nations to provide that for us.
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Old 10-19-04, 09:55 AM
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Kerry environmental ideas are closer to mine than Bush's.
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