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What is an Atheist voter to do?

Old 10-14-04, 02:24 AM
  #51  
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Okay, so if Ashcroft weren't religious we would have saved $6,000. There are plenty of atheists who do support this administration, so I don't see how it could be assumed that he may not if he were an atheist.

All I'm saying is that it is just about the politics. People (atheists) will whine about some religion being pushed on them, but I don't see that it is because of an actual difference in what the candidates support, just with who they tend to agree with for the most part, anyway.
You show me a conservative atheist that is concered about Democrats pushing religion on them, and I'll go get rebaptized.
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Old 10-14-04, 02:30 AM
  #52  
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I can show you plenty of libertarian atheists who see it as "bad" on one side as the other.

And conservative atheists don't tend to worry about religion being pushed on them by either side, from what I have seen. The ones I know tend to respect religion while not believing it. Liberal atheists are practically a religion unto themselves, but obviously there are plenty who are in the same camp I mentioned.

I think it is a generalization that gets so much air time and spin and regugitation that people tend to believe it without actually thinking about why.
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Old 10-14-04, 02:37 AM
  #53  
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Originally posted by kvrdave
I can show you plenty of libertarian atheists who see it as "bad" on one side as the other.

And conservative atheists don't tend to worry about religion being pushed on them by either side, from what I have seen. The ones I know tend to respect religion while not believing it. Liberal atheists are practically a religion unto themselves, but obviously there are plenty who are in the same camp I mentioned.

I think it is a generalization that gets so much air time and spin and regugitation that people tend to believe it without actually thinking about why.
Well, I'm of the opinion that if you spend all your time thinking about how other people are pushing religion on you, you can't really be secure in your atheism. On the other hand, there are certaintly many religious people that worry about atheists destroying America, so I'm not sure how far this goes. Both "sides" (if you want to frame the debate diametrically) have their paranoid fringe.

I guess the lesson here is that no one fits into a tidy little package. Can we still get gay married?
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Old 10-14-04, 09:04 AM
  #54  
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Well, I'm not sure of the point of this thread. Is it that Atheists should only vote for other Atheists, or that they should choose candidates who tout "Atheist Issues" (whatever the hell those might be)?

Unless one candidate was really "out there" with religion (proposing a theocracy for instance), I can't fathom my atheism being a factor when I vote.
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Old 10-14-04, 09:04 AM
  #55  
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Originally posted by kvrdave
And conservative atheists don't tend to worry about religion being pushed on them by either side, from what I have seen. The ones I know tend to respect religion while not believing it. Liberal atheists are practically a religion unto themselves, but obviously there are plenty who are in the same camp I mentioned.
The First Amendment is my shepard. I shall fear no religious nuts.

I have to look at the totality of foreign and domestic policy and see who racks up the most points. Kerry racks up zero, so Bush doesn't have to do that well. I do wish we had been offered better choices.

I think Bush will do a better job of keeping us and the world safe, and will keep my taxes lower. I'm not looking for any big expansion of government services, as my income will be beyond the level for receiving them, but certainly in the income range paying for them. Overturning stupid blue laws will take a backseat for four years, the clowns may even pass more, but you can't choose on a single issue, you have to look at the totality of issues. His religion is a bit over the top and one of the things that worries me.

As I said in another thread, I'd vote for Satan over Kerry, I can certainly vote for a Christian zealot. I just have to have faith our system of checks and balances will limit his ability to establish a national religion (I do believe he would like to if he could)
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Old 10-14-04, 09:07 AM
  #56  
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Originally posted by OldDude
As I said in another thread, I'd vote for Satan over Kerry
But as an Atheist, you cannot believe in Satan! Your entire post has just self-destructed in a puff of logic.
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Old 10-14-04, 09:21 AM
  #57  
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True, but I'd vote for a guy who called himself Satan if I agreed with his policies and he had a record that made his policy statements believable. Rember, on my scale of issues, he only needs one point to beat Kerry, one lousy point.
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Old 10-14-04, 09:33 AM
  #58  
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Some of you guys think atheists spend a lot of time thinking about the nastiness of other people's religions...as long as people don't bother me or abuse their kids and engage in other obnoxious and harmful behavior I don't worry about it.
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Old 10-14-04, 09:49 AM
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Honestly, I'm happy that both of these candidates have religion in their lives. However, I can only imagine the outcry if it was Bush who started quoting Bible passages instead of Kerry.
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Old 10-14-04, 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Bush spent more than Clinton. Do you remember Stem cells just popping up in the past few years? He could have dealt with it.
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9901/19/stem.cell.research/
Originally posted by kvrdave
A grab bag of dishonest spin. That's the beauty of it. We believe out guy isn't the religious wacko becuase we like his policy and we believe the other guy is a wacko because we don't like his policy. What they actually say doesn't matter because we know what they mean.
I never said I believe Bush to be a religious wacko.
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Old 10-14-04, 10:09 AM
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I don't know? Gamble?




As everyone who has started using two syllable words should know, Roe v. Wade did not make it legal in the first place, nor would it keep it from being legal if it were overturned.
Yeah, they should know that but do they? Of course not. We are talking carbon blobs here. One of these days, I want to do an experiment here in a nice part of DC - maybe even on the Hill. Ask people what would be the current state of abortion in this country should Roe v. Wade be overturned. If more than 25% got the answer right, I would be shocked. For the insane amount importance given to this opinion in this country, one would think the carbon blobs would know what the damn thing says.


I've said it once and I'll say it again, whether you wear the libertarian hat, the libertarian-lite (soc libertarian/fiscal conserv) hat, or the atheist hat, there is very little difference btwn these 2 dolts.
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Old 10-14-04, 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Groucho
Well, I'm not sure of the point of this thread. Is it that Atheists should only vote for other Atheists, or that they should choose candidates who tout "Atheist Issues" (whatever the hell those might be)?

Unless one candidate was really "out there" with religion (proposing a theocracy for instance), I can't fathom my atheism being a factor when I vote.
My point, and I do have one......oooooh, let that sink in.....love Ellen......forbidden love....


Anyway, you know as well as I do that Bush is often portrayed as a religious zealot. However, the reality is that there is little real difference between to the two if you actually go by what they claim. It is simply dishonest to fear a theocracy under Bush and hail Kerry as the Savior........hey, that was okay.

That, and I like to tease movielib, but he hasn't shown up yet.
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Old 10-14-04, 10:25 AM
  #63  
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I guess I don't fear a theocracy under either candidate. I do believe that Bush is fairly religious, but I don't think that's a negative thing in and of itself.

I hope the other Atheists don't excommunicate me.

Honest question: is there any Atheist out there who isn't voting for Bush primarily because they see him as a "religious nut"?
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Old 10-14-04, 10:29 AM
  #64  
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Originally posted by Groucho
Honest question: is there any Atheist out there who isn't voting for Bush primarily because they see him as a "religious nut"?


This really is the only question that needs to be asked. I can't see there being many reasonably well-informed atheist voting against Bush on these grounds.
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Old 10-14-04, 11:20 AM
  #65  
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Originally posted by kvrdave
...
That, and I like to tease movielib, but he hasn't shown up yet.
Please tease me. You know I love it.

But what have I ever said about this subject that's teasable?
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Old 10-14-04, 11:28 AM
  #66  
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Originally posted by Red Dog
This really is the only question that needs to be asked.
I think there is another question. How willing is an administration to pander to the religious nuts to gain broader support for other initiatives.?
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Old 10-14-04, 11:33 AM
  #67  
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Originally posted by Groucho
Honest question: is there any Atheist out there who isn't voting for Bush primarily because they see him as a "religious nut"?
I would hope not, because I don't think Bush is a religious nut. Of course, if there was a candidate that truly was a religious nut (favoring a theocracy, or something similiar) that would certainly be enough reason for me not to vote for them.
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Old 10-14-04, 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Contactsport1
I think there is another question. How willing is an administration to pander to the religious nuts to gain broader support for other initiatives.?

Keeping in mind what this adminstration can actually do, any pandering is minor. The adminstration has gotten their way on stem cell research. That's it. The gay marriage issue is moot because a constitutional amendment will not pass. The abortion issue is moot because the Democrats have shown that they can effectively block right-wing nominees. What is left?
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Old 10-14-04, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Groucho
Well, I'm not sure of the point of this thread. Is it that Atheists should only vote for other Atheists...
While that is the question posed, I don't believe that's the core reason for the thread; I think the main gist is that for so long people have been trying to make Bush's faith such a huge issue, and now that Kerry has come out of the chapel himself, how do atheist Kerry supporters reconcile their criticism of Bush?

If it's so bad for the country that Bush has faith, what do you do now, knowing that Kerry has faith as well?

I think it's a valid question. It's not so much that an atheist (or other such God-unfearing person) shouldn't vote, but that they have to look upon faith as a non-issue now, being that both candidates have it. One who this has been a big issue for must now primarily look to other issues to base their decision on.
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Old 10-14-04, 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho

Honest question: is there any Atheist out there who isn't voting for Bush primarily because they see him as a "religious nut"?
That is a good question. I guess this thread stemmed from the rhetoric I hear about Bush being a born again, fundamentalist, etc. etc., and what I saw as basically similar stances about religion in the debates. Nothing more.

movielib - you didn't, but any time I have an atheist thread or post I think, "Sweet....movielib is gonna' love this one"
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Old 10-14-04, 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
...
movielib - you didn't, but any time I have an atheist thread or post I think, "Sweet....movielib is gonna' love this one"
It's nice that you think of me...
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Old 10-14-04, 12:33 PM
  #72  
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What is more likely:

1. An atheist voting for an openly religious candidate.

2. A religious person voting for an openly atheist candidate.
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Old 10-14-04, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
Keeping in mind what this adminstration can actually do, any pandering is minor. The adminstration has gotten their way on stem cell research. That's it. The gay marriage issue is moot because a constitutional amendment will not pass. The abortion issue is moot because the Democrats have shown that they can effectively block right-wing nominees. What is left?
My point was really how an (not necessarily Bush's) administration can pander to the nuties to gain broad support on other initiatives. For instance, you've pointed out that their was support for a constitutional amendment for gay marriage, but it doesn't seem likely to pass. By supporting it in the first place the administration could agrueably have picked up support from said nuties not just on the amendment but other non-nutie related issues as well.
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Old 10-14-04, 12:39 PM
  #74  
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Originally posted by Groucho
What is more likely:

1. An atheist voting for an openly religious candidate.

2. A religious person voting for an openly atheist candidate.

Ooooo Ooooo, can I answer?
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Old 10-14-04, 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho
What is more likely:

1. An atheist voting for an openly religious candidate.

2. A religious person voting for an openly atheist candidate.


An openly atheist candidate getting elected? hahahahahaha!
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