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Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

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Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Old 05-14-20, 09:21 PM
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Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Hot take alert.

Some obvious exceptions to this rule:

a.) If you can't be an organ donor for medical reasons, you should still be eligible for organ transplants. The emphasis here is on being 'unwilling' to donate your organs, not 'unable'.

b.) Minors whose parents have chosen for them to opt out of organ donation shouldn't be ineligible for organ transplants. They don't deserve to be punished for their parent's stupidity.

I'm probably forgetting some other exceptions, but yep.
Old 05-14-20, 10:01 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Terrible terrible take. That is not how medicine is supposed to work. It shouldn't be punitive. "We could save your husband's life with this compatible liver, but we just found out that he was a selfish bastard, so Nope!"

And I like that organs are donated out of the goodness of somebody's heart, not because they had to Or Else!
In China they love killing people for all sorts of crimes and then gently harvest their organs for" donations ". It's really sick.
Old 05-14-20, 10:33 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Terrible terrible take. That is not how medicine is supposed to work. It shouldn't be punitive. "We could save your husband's life with this compatible liver, but we just found out that he was a selfish bastard, so Nope!"
The idea isn't that we throw the heart in a furnace if the person it was supposed to go to isn't an organ donor. It's that the heart goes to someone else who needs it just as bad. You're approaching it from the perspective of the person who doesn't get the heart, while ignoring the person whose life gets saved because of the heart.

The organ donor need list is a long one, and the list of usable organs is a short one. When tough decisions need to be made, I'm ok with this being a consideration. If people who aren't organ donors have a problem with that, well then maybe they should consider becoming organ donors so that we no longer have such a shortage of them.

And I like that organs are donated out of the goodness of somebody's heart, not because they had to Or Else!
In China they love killing people for all sorts of crimes and then gently harvest their organs for" donations ". It's really sick.
You can value pure intentions all you want, as an organ donor myself I prioritize maximizing innocent lives saved over how good of a person organ donors look to others. I find the "goodness of the heart" notion silly to begin with. Anyone with the capacity to "walk a mile in another's shoes" should know that it's a no-brainer situation to become an organ donor. The problem is that we have a lot of religious, misguided, or selfish people.

I don't see what China has to do with any of this.
Old 05-15-20, 01:04 AM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

F#$k you, I don’t have to wear a mask to get free organs! Oh wait, wrong social problem ...
Old 05-15-20, 09:42 AM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Someone whose life is saved by an organ donation may change their mind and become an organ donor themselves.

You don't get to decide who is "worthy".
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Old 05-15-20, 09:58 AM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

For someone in a social democracy with universal healthcare, that will never fly. We don't deny care because you're poor, destitute, have a crappy lifestyle or you're not on some list. It's simply morally wrong (and morality does not require some sort of reciprocal act).
Old 05-15-20, 11:40 AM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

I would much prefer some sort of incentive to be an organ donor like 10% off auto registration or an identifier on your Driver's License that earns you discounts at local businesses.

Here in Vegas Penn & Teller sometimes give free show tickets to blood donors. That sort of thing I can get behind.
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Old 05-15-20, 02:02 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Clicking the organ donation box was a simple decision for me. I'm not sure why someone would NOT want to do it. Unless, you know, they are still using it.

Old 05-15-20, 04:05 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

I’m still baffled at the point being brought up about the morality in decision making. What exactly is the point? That having something like this means you’d no longer be able to pat yourself on the back for doing ‘a good thing’?

I’m with General Zod on it being a no-brainer decision. It’s an obligation to your fellow human to be an organ donor. You’re not sacrificing anything by being a donor, so if you’re self-congratulatory about being one, then I’m afraid you’ve set the bar pretty low for yourself.

You don't get to decide who is "worthy".
I’m not deciding, they are.
Old 05-15-20, 04:28 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Not being an organ donor is one of the most selfish decisions a person can make.

In order to not be an organ donor, you have to fail to entertain a hypothetical where your mother or your son desperately needs an organ and can't get one because the list is too long. Or you have to have nobody in your life that matters enough to you (including yourself) for you to entertain such a hypothetical, in which case I'd feel sorry for you.
Old 05-15-20, 04:33 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

I disagree completely. Should I only get cancer treatment if I've donated to the research fund that resulted in that treatment? Should I only get to shop at Goodwill if I've donated items there?

In general, I think people who are in need should be treated with grace and not have the meeting of their needs be contingent on their past decisions.
Old 05-15-20, 04:38 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
I disagree completely. Should I only get cancer treatment if I've donated to the research fund that resulted in that treatment? Should I only get to shop at Goodwill if I've donated items there?

In general, I think people who are in need should be treated with grace and not have the meeting of their needs be contingent on their past decisions.
Donating money for research is an actual sacrifice. That money could be spent towards other personal needs, like food or clothes. Donating organs is not a sacrifice.

Organs have absolutely no value when a person is dead, other than for superstitious nonsense.
Old 05-15-20, 04:50 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by atrium View Post
Organs have absolutely no value when a person is dead, other than for superstitious nonsense.
The notion that organs have no value does not compute with your assertion that not being an organ donor is selfish. Furthermore, from where do you derive the authority to decide what reasoning would be "valid" for choosing not to be an organ donor?
Old 05-15-20, 04:53 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
The notion that organs have no value does not compute with your assertion that not being an organ donor is selfish. Furthermore, from where do you derive the authority to decide what reasoning would be "valid" for choosing not to be an organ donor?
I thought it would be common sense that I meant organs that aren't donated have no value.

What uses do you see for dead people's organs, other than donation?
Old 05-15-20, 04:59 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

One more time, morality does not require some sort of reciprocal act. You don't get to say screw you and your bad life choices, you pesky smokers, bad eaters, non exercisers and non organ donors! Everyone is treated equally, regardless of their alleged bad life choices. And yes, even lifers in prison.

But I realize that's not a very American way to look at things.
Old 05-15-20, 05:10 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
One more time, morality does not require some sort of reciprocal act. You don't get to say screw you and your bad life choices, you pesky smokers, bad eaters, non exercisers and non organ donors! Everyone is treated equally, regardless of their alleged bad life choices. And yes, even lifers in prison.

But I realize that's not a very American way to look at things.
That's not true. Smokers, overweight people, etc. get bumped down the organ transplant list in favor of people who live more healthy lives.
Old 05-15-20, 05:15 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
For someone in a social democracy with universal healthcare, that will never fly. We don't deny care because you're poor, destitute, have a crappy lifestyle or you're not on some list. It's simply morally wrong (and morality does not require some sort of reciprocal act).
We don't deny care because you're poor, as well. I see it as more of a waiting problem.
Old 05-15-20, 05:27 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by atrium View Post
That's not true. Smokers, overweight people, etc. get bumped down the organ transplant list in favor of people who live more healthy lives.
Not over here. It's called universal health care for a reason.
Old 05-15-20, 05:28 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
Not over here. It's called universal health care for a reason.
So they let smokers and obese people get organs before fit, healthy people? That's odd. Do they not take age into account either?
Old 05-15-20, 05:30 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by atrium View Post
I thought it would be common sense that I meant organs that aren't donated have no value.

What uses do you see for dead people's organs, other than donation?
If the undonated organs have no value, what's selfish about not donating? Selfishness implies they would have some value to the keeper.

Regarding your question, you're operating from the philosophical position that an organ only has value or meaning if it has a "use". I'll ask again, from where do you derive the authority to decide what reasoning would be "valid" for choosing not to be an organ donor?

Let's consider a hypothetical that expands on my question. I have just a single $1 bill in my wallet. A beggar asks me for $1 and it might just save his life. I have plenty of money to my name, but just this single $1 bill on me. I'm never going to part with this $1 bill - never going to spend it or otherwise. It has no practical use as a dollar to me. I'm never going to see this beggar again and I refuse to give the beggar this $1 that I'm resolved not to part with.

Does my reasoning for keeping the $1 matter? Is there any valid reason for me to not give it to the beggar and what gives you the authority to decide if my reason is valid? Maybe I refuse to part with it because I don't trust what the beggar might do with it and I feel a sense of personal responsibility to not put it in his hands. Maybe I refuse to part with it because it's my "lucky dollar" and I believe my financial luck will turn if I part with it. Maybe I refuse to part with it because I subscribe to the philosophy that money is power and always keeping this $1 is a symbol of that philosophy. Maybe i refuse to part with it because scrawled on that dollar bill is a little, "I love you" note written to me by my late wife on the day she was tragically killed in a car accident. None of those reasons represent any practical use I have for that dollar. Are they all equally invalid? Why do you get to judge the reason?
Old 05-15-20, 05:34 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by atrium View Post
That's not true. Smokers, overweight people, etc. get bumped down the organ transplant list in favor of people who live more healthy lives.
That is not true here either - If someone is deemed to be a bad surgical risk or stands to have a worse outcome, they might go down in priority. But livers are given to alcoholics and lungs are given to smokers all the time. Is a formula based on need and chance of successful outcome. It is not, and should not be, a moral judgement in any way.

Should Alcoholics Be Deprioritized for Liver Transplantation?


Conclusion

In this short essay, I have tried to highlight some of the medical and moral issues at play in deciding whether alcoholics should be deprioritized for liver transplantations. I argued that medical considerations are not likely to be substantial on a population level insofar as alcoholics are not likely to be riskier transplant cases nor to have lower life expectancies than nonalcoholics. In certain cases, some alcoholics will do poorly in regards to these criteria, though this does not justify deprioritizing them in virtue oftheir alcoholism since they will already be deprioritized on straightforward medical criteria alone. The moral dimensions are harder to evaluate, though the critical question is whether alcoholics are blameworthy for their cirrhosis. If we endorse a disease concept of alcoholism, then they arguably are not blameworthy and should not be subjugated to a deprioritization. However, if we reject the disease concept, then we might legitimately deprioritize them on moral grounds.
Old 05-15-20, 05:38 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by atrium View Post
So they let smokers and obese people get organs before fit, healthy people? That's odd. Do they not take age into account either?
It's odd to you but it certainly isn't odd to me (for reasons already mentioned).


Old 05-15-20, 05:48 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

^ To expand on alcoholics

There were two cases in Ontario roughly 10 years ago where alcoholics were denied a transplant and died. Ontario has a "6 months sober before transplant" rule. This went to court and last year, Ontario's highest court sided with the families, i.e. that this rule is discriminatory and possibly a violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And off this goes to the Supreme Court.

Plus, the Ontario agency responsible for overseeing organs donations and transplants, already softened their stance and launched a
three-year pilot program to study outcomes of certain alcoholics who qualify to receive liver transplants.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...urt-rules.html
Old 05-15-20, 09:04 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

You responded to the second part of my post, but not the first. I pointed out that an individual's "worthiness" (by your definition) is changeable. You may define them as scum at the moment, but they can change.

However, they can only change if they live long enough to do so.

Again, by denying them that opportunity, YOU are deciding whether or not they deserve to live.

Your attempt to rile everyone up with assholery has been successful. Consider yourself sworn at.
Old 05-15-20, 09:16 PM
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Re: Only registered organ donors should be allow to receive organ transplants

Originally Posted by mrs. Danger View Post
your attempt to rile everyone up with assholery has been successful. Consider yourself sworn at.
😂

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