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COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Old 09-23-21, 12:03 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

I don't know the answer to your question. I do want to say "Congratulations!" on the pregnancy. May everything be as smooth as possible as it goes forward.
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Old 09-23-21, 12:05 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by story View Post
Can you describe the "No"? Was it like, "Huh? No, of course not!" or was it, "Gosh... well... no, I, I didn't..." or was it a flat, "No." How did she respond when she realized her mistake.

...Did... Did she realize her mistake?
Flat "no", like it was a yes or no question. I said "You probably have or had Covid then". I don't think she realized it until I told her. But then again, neither of us even considered that the baby had Covid and wouldn't have even thought about it if she hadn't asked for the negative flu test. So the whole thing was a bit of a surprise.
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Old 09-23-21, 12:08 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Transmission question here...

So next week, me, my (pregnant) wife and a friend are going to a fancy, "chef's table" sort of meal, where it's roughly 20 people in a small-ish dinning room, all sorta sitting at the same table. The other people are strangers.
Now, they do require vaccines, and they're pretty militant about it, so every one there is guaranteed to be vaccinated and symptom free.

So my question is, how likely is it that someone vaccinated and asymptomatic, can pass covid to someone else who is also vaccinated?
Because were all gonna be maskless in the same small room.
I would feel pretty comfortable in that setting. Safer than most restaurants. If you can ask for a little additional space for your pregnant wife, I am sure they would do their best to accommodate you.
And yes, Congrats! Is this your first?
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Old 09-23-21, 12:11 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Flat "no", like it was a yes or no question. I said "You probably have or had Covid then". I don't think she realized it until I told her. But then again, neither of us even considered that the baby had Covid and wouldn't have even thought about it if she hadn't asked for the negative flu test. So the whole thing was a bit of a surprise.
Isn't it probably worse that you had a mom who probably has COVID in your well room with the other kids (not sure if you guys require masks, but hopefully you do)? I assume asymptomatic transmission from adults is worse than from a baby. In that case what do you have to tell your other patients?
Old 09-23-21, 12:22 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I would feel pretty comfortable in that setting. Safer than most restaurants. If you can ask for a little additional space for your pregnant wife, I am sure they would do their best to accommodate you.
And yes, Congrats! Is this your first?
Yes, our first (got married last November, expecting a boy this (early) December), thank you!
With covid, everything's been nuts, but all good so far (the only scary part was that we're both carriers for cystic fibrosis, so our baby had a 25% of actually having it, but after an amniotic-test, looks like he's clear... phew!)

But my wife is extra nervous about covid, due to her pregnancy, and having heard/read that it's way tougher on pregnant people, even vaxed ones - but there's actually not much info out there on it - same with my question on spread among symptom-less vaxed people.
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Old 09-23-21, 12:34 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Isn't it probably worse that you had a mom who probably has COVID in your well room with the other kids (not sure if you guys require masks, but hopefully you do)? I assume asymptomatic transmission from adults is worse than from a baby. In that case what do you have to tell your other patients?
Mom was wearing a mask, obviously baby was not, so I think the baby would have been a worse spreader. Thankfully nobody was coughing or sneezing.

As far as telling others, we didn't. For one, everyone who was in the waiting room when this baby was there was long gone by the time we got the results of the Covid test. For another, there are privacy issues with HIPAA. And I don't think it would do much good but would absolutely freak out those families. The fact is if you are out you could be sitting next to a person with Covid and have no idea. That's what happened here. I don't fault the mother for coming into the Well waiting room, it was for a well visit and the kid was acting fine. We've had several times when a family waits in the Well side only to tell us once they come back that their kids were recently diagnosed with Covid or running fever or such.

I don't know what the right thing to do is, but Covid is so prevalent that everyone is being exposed. That's why vaccines and masks are SO important for everyone.
Old 09-23-21, 01:08 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Yes, our first (got married last November, expecting a boy this (early) December), thank you!
With covid, everything's been nuts, but all good so far (the only scary part was that we're both carriers for cystic fibrosis, so our baby had a 25% of actually having it, but after an amniotic-test, looks like he's clear... phew!)

But my wife is extra nervous about covid, due to her pregnancy, and having heard/read that it's way tougher on pregnant people, even vaxed ones - but there's actually not much info out there on it - same with my question on spread among symptom-less vaxed people.
That's so exciting. We check newborns for CF with the newborn screen so you should get confirmation really soon, but if the amnio says no CF, you are probably already in the clear. It's a bummer you both are carriers. One thing to note : Having the diagnosis at birth really makes the prognosis a LOT better - - you don't do massive damage to the lungs before diagnosis any more and that has lead to much better outcomes. I have 3-4 CF patients and they're all doing really well on medication and chest percussive therapies.

Yes Covid is really rough on pregnant mothers, but I think the vaccinated ones do well. I have seen a few disasters in the unvaccinated ones. When I hear a pregnant mother state that she wants to wait until her baby is born to get the shot, I am just floored. That's waiting until you get to Disneyland before doing up your seatbelt. Somebody asked me what did I think could happen to their unborn baby if she got the vaccine while pregnant. I gave her the honest answer : Maybe the baby is born with some Covid antibodies. That's it.
Old 09-23-21, 01:22 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Mom was wearing a mask, obviously baby was not, so I think the baby would have been a worse spreader. Thankfully nobody was coughing or sneezing.

As far as telling others, we didn't. For one, everyone who was in the waiting room when this baby was there was long gone by the time we got the results of the Covid test. For another, there are privacy issues with HIPAA. And I don't think it would do much good but would absolutely freak out those families. The fact is if you are out you could be sitting next to a person with Covid and have no idea. That's what happened here. I don't fault the mother for coming into the Well waiting room, it was for a well visit and the kid was acting fine. We've had several times when a family waits in the Well side only to tell us once they come back that their kids were recently diagnosed with Covid or running fever or such.

I don't know what the right thing to do is, but Covid is so prevalent that everyone is being exposed. That's why vaccines and masks are SO important for everyone.
I was just wondering if there were some kind of contact tracing mandates that had to be followed, namely that the mom (and presumably dad) would be quarantined and tested and then you'd have to tell everyone that was in the office that there was someone with COVID and to go get tested (without naming names, I assume). But that ship has probably sailed. I could've sworn that was a thing back when restaurants were first opening up again.
Old 09-23-21, 01:56 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
That's so exciting. We check newborns for CF with the newborn screen so you should get confirmation really soon, but if the amnio says no CF, you are probably already in the clear. It's a bummer you both are carriers. One thing to note : Having the diagnosis at birth really makes the prognosis a LOT better - - you don't do massive damage to the lungs before diagnosis any more and that has lead to much better outcomes. I have 3-4 CF patients and they're all doing really well on medication and chest percussive therapies.
Yeah, seems like our boy will be also carrier, but not actually have CF (my wife and I are carriers of different strains).
I'm just getting ready for being an "old-man-dad" - first time father at almost 50 years old is no joke!

Yes Covid is really rough on pregnant mothers, but I think the vaccinated ones do well. I have seen a few disasters in the unvaccinated ones. When I hear a pregnant mother state that she wants to wait until her baby is born to get the shot, I am just floored. That's waiting until you get to Disneyland before doing up your seatbelt. Somebody asked me what did I think could happen to their unborn baby if she got the vaccine while pregnant. I gave her the honest answer : Maybe the baby is born with some Covid antibodies. That's it.
I'm trying to assure my wife that we have a greater risk of getting in a car accident on our way to the dinner than we do of catching covid once we're there.

But, like I said, numbers of vax to vax infections are not easy to come by.
Old 09-23-21, 02:48 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Yeah, seems like our boy will be also carrier, but not actually have CF (my wife and I are carriers of different strains).
I'm just getting ready for being an "old-man-dad" - first time father at almost 50 years old is no joke!
Oh boy are you in for a shock! Enjoy your sleep while you can.
I have had a couple of kids in a similar CF situation and the pediatric pulmonologist wanted to see them just to follow. I don't know if they have any partial symptoms with one gene the way that Sickle Cell carriers sometimes do. Might be worth at least a one-time consult if the screening test comes back with a borderline IRT.


I'm trying to assure my wife that we have a greater risk of getting in a car accident on our way to the dinner than we do of catching covid once we're there.

But, like I said, numbers of vax to vax infections are not easy to come by.
They are not. But keep in mind that even if vaccinated, the likelihood of the infection being anything serious is very, very tiny. It's one thing testing positive with a nose swab, it's another to actually get ill after infection in an immunized person.
Old 09-23-21, 04:36 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Today's story : So today in my office I saw a 9 month old baby for a Well Child Check. This baby was a former 28 week premie (three months early, very premature). As the baby was so early, he gets a monthly shot called Synagis at the pulmonologist office. It's a very expensive treatment, $1000 per injection monthly, to prevent him from getting RSV, which is a winter-time upper respiratory virus that can make premature babies very, very sick.
Well, I was a 25-week preemie who survived (that was quite a feat in the mid-1960s), and you learn something new every day. There certainly was no expensive $1000 RSV shot back then (that I know of!), but I know these babies usually died from immature respiratory systems and under respiratory distress, But, being in an incubator for the first 3 months at Children's hospital on 100% o2, I didn't get off scot-free, for I developed RLF (now they call it retinopathy of prematurity, I believe). Are the monthly RSV shots truly effective in preventing mortality and morbidity in these preemies, or is it, as I suspect, also a marketing gimmick? What is the "expected" medical protocol for babies this premature (< 28 weeks) nowadays?

I just can't believe HIPPA laws are so ridiculous that you feared them and didn't inform the patients in that "well room" about the situation. Of course, they were all vaccinated -- presumably, and long gone, so your took the right course in some ways. Is it a medical ethics issue? Did you have any obligation to call and / or tell them about the incident, regardless of HIPPA bullshit? A 9-month-old baby with a posive COVID test can't be very common.
Old 09-23-21, 04:40 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Transmission question here...

So next week, me, my (pregnant) wife and a friend are going to a fancy, "chef's table" sort of meal, where it's roughly 20 people in a small-ish dinning room, all sorta sitting at the same table. The other people are strangers.
Now, they do require vaccines, and they're pretty militant about it, so every one there is guaranteed to be vaccinated and symptom free.

So my question is, how likely is it that someone vaccinated and asymptomatic, can pass covid to someone else who is also vaccinated?
Because were all gonna be maskless in the same small room.
Wear your masks when you get up and walk around the restaurant/bar/restroom/parking lot.
Old 09-23-21, 04:49 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Honestly I don't know the answer to that. I am sure that would freak everybody out but I really doubt the exposure was more than a couple of minutes if that. We have 12 exam rooms and everyone gets brought back pretty quick.
Honest question : Would you want a department store to call you if they discovered you rode up in the elevator with a baby who it turns out had Covid? Would you want a restaurant to call you if you sat at a table next to someone who later found out they had Covid? We're exposed every day. I'm sure all my patients ride up the elevator with people who have covid. Certainly the kids in school get exposed and I get emails almost daily from the school - useless emails stating that somebody in the school had Covid but they can't say who or in which class.

As prevalent as Covid is now, I don't know what that sort of information does for people. I will ask around and discuss with other providers. We do our very best to keep potential Covid cases away from well children but without testing everybody before they even come into the office, it's an impossible task to be 100% successful with.
Old 09-23-21, 04:52 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

80% of Canadians aged 12+ are now fully vaccinated.
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Old 09-23-21, 05:35 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
As prevalent as Covid is now, I don't know what that sort of information does for people. I will ask around and discuss with other providers. We do our very best to keep potential Covid cases away from well children but without testing everybody before they even come into the office, it's an impossible task to be 100% successful with.
Of course that's true, frustratingly true. The honest answer being that "No," I wouldn't want to be informed of a possibly fleeting exposure to COVID at a physician's office, since I know that's a risk that I take now whenever I go out in public. I was just curious as to what official medical ethics protocol says on the issue. (if there is even such a protocol). Dealing with this in real life as a Doc on top of all the other daily stresses must be something you'd rather not have to address. But, then you've got even bigger fish to fry with those patients who go against your medical advice and steadfastly REFUSE to vaccinate, while you hands are tied. Major respect to you for continuing on the often sisyphean task of trying to help these people.
Old 09-23-21, 09:42 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Honestly I don't know the answer to that. I am sure that would freak everybody out but I really doubt the exposure was more than a couple of minutes if that. We have 12 exam rooms and everyone gets brought back pretty quick.
Honest question : Would you want a department store to call you if they discovered you rode up in the elevator with a baby who it turns out had Covid? Would you want a restaurant to call you if you sat at a table next to someone who later found out they had Covid? We're exposed every day. I'm sure all my patients ride up the elevator with people who have covid. Certainly the kids in school get exposed and I get emails almost daily from the school - useless emails stating that somebody in the school had Covid but they can't say who or in which class.

As prevalent as Covid is now, I don't know what that sort of information does for people. I will ask around and discuss with other providers. We do our very best to keep potential Covid cases away from well children but without testing everybody before they even come into the office, it's an impossible task to be 100% successful with.
There's an app for that. At least in Canada. I'm not sure what the exposure time is for it to register, and of course it relies on a couple of things... You need to be running the app, the person that has Covid needs to be running the app, and the person that has Covid has to report that they have it, through the app.

Personally, I'd rather know of any reasonable exposure. If I received an alert, I would avoid visiting my 87 year-old mother until I was certain I didn't have it.
Old 09-24-21, 12:15 AM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Honestly I don't know the answer to that. I am sure that would freak everybody out but I really doubt the exposure was more than a couple of minutes if that. We have 12 exam rooms and everyone gets brought back pretty quick.
Honest question : Would you want a department store to call you if they discovered you rode up in the elevator with a baby who it turns out had Covid? Would you want a restaurant to call you if you sat at a table next to someone who later found out they had Covid? We're exposed every day. I'm sure all my patients ride up the elevator with people who have covid. Certainly the kids in school get exposed and I get emails almost daily from the school - useless emails stating that somebody in the school had Covid but they can't say who or in which class.

As prevalent as Covid is now, I don't know what that sort of information does for people. I will ask around and discuss with other providers. We do our very best to keep potential Covid cases away from well children but without testing everybody before they even come into the office, it's an impossible task to be 100% successful with.
It sounds kind of like in biology class when they talk about all the parasites you're covered in and you start feeling really gross and Howard Hughesy, but you've always been covered in them. You're fine.

COVID's not fine, but without any context, I think you're right those numbers aren't going to be particularly helpful. Would be better if there was some way (backed by research) to give ratings or an overall exposure level graded A to E or something like that. Maybe revive that old terrorist watch color code for COVID!
Old 09-24-21, 09:17 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
80% of Canadians aged 12+ are now fully vaccinated.
That's truly fabulous. Those Canucks are smart and don't fuck around. What, by way of pitiful comparison, are the current US numbers, if indeed they can even be assertained at this point?

Always said a Canadian residency would be worth considering. Now I know, that's a fact for "Plan B" or "Plan C" when things become totally untenable in the US, which is rapidly unraveling -- seemingly in real time. Each passing month is making me less desiring of remaining a US citizen. I lost "pride" in this country a good 25 years ago.
Old 09-24-21, 09:25 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

I mentioned in the Political thread, the FDA and CDC just approved a booster dose for those 65+, those 50+ with risk factors and those at high risk of exposure like Healthcare Workers, who received the Pfizer vaccine > 6 mo ago. Since I fall into at least one of those groups, and since I had a vial of vaccine already constituted and sitting on the counter in my office that was due to be wasted in a few hours, I went ahead and got myself a booster today. I figured I wanted to do it on a Friday so that if I felt sick the next day, I wouldn't have to worry about missing work. Got the shot, hung out for 10 minutes, no reaction. Uploaded my record to the statewide vaccine database cloud (and it showed as accepted, so they've already set up allowances for boosters). So far, so good. No soreness or redness or any other symptoms. We shall see how I feel tomorrow.
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Old 09-25-21, 04:46 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I mentioned in the Political thread, the FDA and CDC just approved a booster dose for those 65+, those 50+ with risk factors and those at high risk of exposure like Healthcare Workers, who received the Pfizer vaccine > 6 mo ago. Since I fall into at least one of those groups, and since I had a vial of vaccine already constituted and sitting on the counter in my office that was due to be wasted in a few hours, I went ahead and got myself a booster today. I figured I wanted to do it on a Friday so that if I felt sick the next day, I wouldn't have to worry about missing work. Got the shot, hung out for 10 minutes, no reaction. Uploaded my record to the statewide vaccine database cloud (and it showed as accepted, so they've already set up allowances for boosters). So far, so good. No soreness or redness or any other symptoms. We shall see how I feel tomorrow.
Doc, heal thyself! Very good, smart, way to get it done, and circumvent all the red tape. So, dosage was exactly the same? Will you need a second "booster" shot in 21 - 25 days, like you had with your original Pfizer vaccine, or is just the single shot the correct medical protocol?
Old 09-25-21, 04:55 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

It's a single shot booster.

I have a little swelling at the injection site and it's a little tender to the touch. But nothing terrible and I feel fine.
Old 09-26-21, 01:30 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
It's a single shot booster.

I have a little swelling at the injection site and it's a little tender to the touch. But nothing terrible and I feel fine.
I'll be getting my booster soon. I had mild headaches from the first shot and pretty serious headaches from the second. I am curious to see how I react to the third. Since it has been almost 8 months since my second shot, hopefully I only react like I did to the first shot.
Old 09-26-21, 02:19 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
That's truly fabulous. Those Canucks are smart and don't fuck around. What, by way of pitiful comparison, are the current US numbers, if indeed they can even be assertained at this point?
I believe the US is at 55%, but you're getting dragged down by red states, some as low as 35%.
Old 09-26-21, 05:08 PM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

^ Thanks, but really, 55% is a far cry from Canada's 80%. As in a few more *years* of COVID bullshit that the USA will need to "suffer" for the benefit of those 45% who refuse to get vaccinated for the public good (public health).
Old 09-27-21, 05:48 AM
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Re: COVID-19 NON-POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
^ Thanks, but really, 55% is a far cry from Canada's 80%. As in a few more *years* of COVID bullshit that the USA will need to "suffer" for the benefit of those 45% who refuse to get vaccinated for the public good (public health).
Over 76% of those eligible to get the vaccine in the US have received at least one dose. So the 23% is about half of your number that "refuse to get vaccinated" if that makes you feel better..

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